Monk Tert?

[Toxis]

[40w 29b 23c 21n 13o 11m 11d 8t] Stun riposte,2ndwind,entrench
[40w 30b 22o 18c 11m 10n 8t 7d] Addict %s I want it all, and I want it now

Chars with no EQ and at 17 con and 14 int.
Stun: 870 hp, 257 mana (total levels: 156)
Addict: 872 hp, 184 mana (total levels: 146)

I don't even know how much damage reduction I'll get for monk tert, if anything worthwhile. I was wondering if this was a horrible choice for a group tank if my mana is going to be so much lower but hit points almost the same. I was wondering if I should remake a tank or is this going to work out? I'd really like to hear thoughts on this, please. Thank you.

-Toxis

[Vixn]

Stop complain, make another newbie.
You are really good on it =)

*hugs*


Vixn

[Toxis]

I wasn't trying to complain, I want someone to tell me if Addict is a viable tank or if it would make more sense to create a different class warrior.

[jezer]

I've long suspected the totals of hp ma mv are not fair amongst the forty thousand possible class orders.

If provided with the hp ma mv added for each new level in every class position I think I could prove my point. I think you would end up with a kind of a max and min char at 8x40. Something like...

800hp 300ma 400mv classo vs a 900hp 450ma 300mv. I think 150ma is worth more than 100 mv's.

Sure the balances are going to be different because of the class order... but I suspect there could be quite a deviation in the totals... an UNFAIR deviation when the total of the stats is added up.

The proper thing to do would have been to calculate the hp ma mv using a recursive program for all 40,000 classo's (8*7*6*5*4*3*2*1). Copy the data to excel, and sorted them in ascending order. I bet it's deviant beyond the point of being "fair."

When I used to play Apprentice I had just under 1000ma and still had over 800 hit points... I don't call that fair when comparing myself to a warrior classo with 1000hp but only 400 mana.

It would not surprise me if the problem has been stretched with 8 classo's. I doubt any one bothered to programmatically calculated the totals for the 40000 class orders just to make sure the min and max amongst them were not unfairly different.

[jezer]

[quote="jezer":1x269hs4]It would not surprise me if the problem has been stretched with 8 classo's. I doubt any one bothered to programmatically calculated the totals for the 40000 class orders just to make sure the min and max amongst them were not unfairly different.[/quote:1x269hs4]

In fact we know they didn't... because if you remember the mv's were wrong and it had to be recalculated, as chars were getting excessive amounts of moves in the back class orders. This was posted on the crier.

At sloth the mechanics of the game code is hidden, but this works against the game in my opinion, as all it does is hide some of the bungling that has gone on. It could be quickly pointed out, if we had more transparency with some information which has no effect on enabling players to "hack the game" - but just keeping things fair.

[Dragoth]

Come on Brad, you are one of the more experienced guys who had played more chars with more hours put into this game than anyone else and you've got to ask questions like that ?

[Toxis]

I think the question that I'm aiming at is exactly how much damage reduction I'm getting for monk tert.

Thanks for adding quality information to this thread, Dragoth.

-Brad

[jezer]

[quote="Toxis":2o5hlx40]I think the question that I'm aiming at is exactly how much damage reduction I'm getting for monk tert.[/quote:2o5hlx40]

We don't know... I suspect about 16 points cap at tert, which is about 16% if a dam reduct point is still a percentage point.

If a tank gets hit for 200hp a round... that's a saving of roughly 32 hp.

If a heal is about 200hp and Dam reduct is 32hp average per round...

6.2 rounds of fighting = 62 mana saved

One round with max dam reduct is potential saving of roughly 10mana? Which makes sense given 10 mana is around 30hp with cure critic or what ever.

Ball park figure is at max cap you save 10mana per round of battle.

Not bad I guess... but considering how hard it is to get 16 dam reduct, I don't think dam reduct is an economic option. The truth is before tard you probably have around 5 dam reduct at most, making mana far more valuable. IE, tert is crap compared to a caster class.

If an imm wants to post proper caps for a calculation, go ahead.

[jezer]

More ramblings... If dam reduct is still percentage point based... it works best when you get hit harder.

It's going to work better for group tanks running epics, than solo tanks running xp.

As for buying dam reduct with tokens later on...

1 dam reduct = 5 tokens?
5 mana = 3 tokens?

Based on previous information 1 dam reduct is a fair price for 5 tokens in comparison with 3 tokens for 5 mana.

Dam reduct is nice, trouble is you need large amounts of it to work effectively, and getting large amounts only comes at the end.

Also it needs to be pointed out, what dam reduct saves in damage, hp regen can replace... so in a sense both skills save hp. Given some of the nice hp regen 3x40 items available, they are effectively a form of damage reduction also in a sense.

A druid monk, using sanct, fluid, shield of thorns, iron skin, with max dam reduct, wearing high hp regen is a formidable front liner. Esp with 6 attacks and using crits and counters.

The true power comes at the end. Dam reduct is great, but it comes about as quickly as nice quest eq as compared to mana which comes far easier and sooner, it's a trade off.

[Dragoth]

Anything for you tox!

I agree with everything jezer said, however there is a major problem with his calculations as he doesnt know exactly how much damage is reduced with each point of damage reduct. The best way would be to find a 1d1 weapon ( if its possible at all in this version) and test it in arena to avoid the damage difference from dice roll variation.

Once you know exactly what each point of damage reduction reduces you can come to certain conclusions. Otherwise this discussion is pretty much useless.

[jezer]

According to the last code leak (2004?), 1 dam reduct WAS 1%. Given the ravaging they gave monk hand dam a few years later, the lack of drachma eq, the lack of new skills from s3, I doubt it's changed.

BTW Splork, how about another code leak in time for my birthday? You'll think about it? Great!

I doubt dam reduct caps change by more than 2-4 points per class position. So monk is simply not worth putting higher for dam reduct alone.

2-4% on 200 hp damage is only... 1 or 2 hp reduct per round. When your talking that smaller change having it first or last doesn't make a huge difference, it's probably more important to have the mana from a caster class. Don't forget everyone has monk now, so the differences are less distinguished as players without monk in the old sloth.