gold

Please post your ideas to improve our mud.

gold

Postby sirrico1 » Sat May 23, 2009 9:46 am

I know this is a waste of my time but so is gaming so I'll say it anyways.

add more gold to some chop area's for warriors/monks/bards to hit

is really annoying having exp for 4 or 5 lvls and no gold to lvl with


hate the gold to lvl crap.
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Postby Magi » Sat May 23, 2009 10:56 am

I'm sure they hear you... but trying to think of a solution to the re-dwindling player base with everyone tired of solo coinage will probably take awhile.

My suggestion, if coins need to be 'hard to get', is to halve those leveling costs; at least the cost of the first 4 classes. Inflation will be minimal, because we will all spend less time running gold.
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Postby *Splork* » Sat May 23, 2009 11:39 am

I sent out an email to admin earlier this morning on this topic and Ill just post most if it here so that you guys can offer suggestions.. Here it is...



One major problem leading to this complaint is how much easier it has been to gain exp in this version of sloth. We had our first triple 40 character after only 6 weeks. It took Zarf and I over 4 months in 3(we were the first triple40s). We played just as much as the recent triple 40 players,all day at work and all night together. This means we probably killed hundreds if not thousands more mobs to level then the people now are which means we gained quite a bit more gold then the current players do( and for the most part didnt have this problem). We have exp groups running everyday, large ones which mean tons of exp, very little coins...


Now here is the problem, if we raise gold ingame, we are quickly left in the situation we are trying to prevent from s3 where everyone had millions of coins and we were left with no economy. If we do nothing, the players continue to complain and possibly quit.

Ive found it near impossible to explain why we there is a lack of gold ingame. For one, we have everyone running the same basic mobs, gold runs are being taken up by the smart players every day and night. These players are really not having much of an issue with gold/level ratio. Two, as I said before, the previous version required much more killing to level which meant more gold for everyone. This version we just join groups and exp is handed to us in grand fashion. We have not removed any gold from areas that are being run except for a couple small changes by juggleblood, nothing that would really cause an issue. And I also changed the gold to one rediculously high gold area.

Ill be honest, I dont have a clue of what to do. I kind of like the fact gold is slowing the players down, because they need to be slowed down some. On the other hand, exp soon raises to the hundreds of millions to level and that in itself will slow people down...

Anyone have any good ideas because I need some help here...

Splork
Last edited by *Splork* on Sat May 23, 2009 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Yinao » Sat May 23, 2009 12:24 pm

I like the fact that you ask the player base what we think needs to be done to help the mud. I like Kevin's suggestion about lowering the cost of the levels up to a certain extent it wont really inflate anything due to the fact they'll spend more later gaining levels anyways. I like the fact that its hard to get coins as well, as much as it sucks to not be able to afford sbs at the library or newb eq you need and such it makes it more challenging to play, which being lvl 20 20 im in no hurry to get 8x40 like I did in sloth 3. Lowering the gold cost on levels up to lvl 20 or 10 or 15 or whichever would slow the complaining down till they get to later levels, or they'll spend that gaining lvl 21 22 23 so on and so forth.
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Postby 12345 » Sat May 23, 2009 12:58 pm

I was running gold runs quite a bit in the previous version, but my characters were designed primarily to lead.

I will disagree that gold is your preferred method for slowing down players because of the curves for leveling. As greater amounts of xp and gold are needed for leveling, the higher level players will start having comparatively high concentrations of both by necessity. Xp isn't transferable and gold is. Once you introduce gold areas to allow the 7x40 and 8x40 players to keep leveling, it will filter down to the lower players.

An additional issue is that gold does not scale well to the overall playerbase. Limited numbers of gold areas means limited numbers of players have access to gold runs and can excel in the game. As the playerbase goes down, more people have this access and it becomes more limited as players go up. This leaves you with a relatively static number of players that the game can support.

The biggest issue is probably that many areas had either good xp or good gold, but not both. The good xp areas have become the standard and the good gold areas are being systemically downgraded. Both increase the need for gold. A second issue would be that there are limited egress routes for gold from the game. The major ones being leveling, rent, forges and vaults. Since forges and vaults are rather optional and most players seek to limit rent as much as possible, that leaves you in the position of trying to remove all the money in the game through leveling.

If your only limiting factor for gold is leveling, it comes down to how much gold a character is consuming on their journey to avatar (one of the imms should possess this info). You are then going to have to determine how long this journey should take (ie 730 days). That will provide you with the amount of gold that should be introduced to each player a day (roughly... I'm not sure all possible areas are in play yet). I'm guessing its going to end up being a pretty high number since there are now 9 increasingly expensive classes. You might find out that you're not in as much trouble as you thought you were. However, as soon as you end up with a character that exceeds your number of days, inflation will start creeping in on you.

Similarly, you can calculate the average xp per day that each character should be able to obtain using the same method. This is a bit more difficult since it ramps quickly in the earlier levels and eventually plateaus at some point when the highest xp areas (like the Desert) become possible for the player and are run continuously. Ideally, this number should reflect the number obtained for gold. Because of the scaling issue mentioned earlier, it is preferable for the gold needed for these levels to be obtained from either the mobs that the xp originated from or a separate area comparable to the one the xp originated from. Having common gold runs which are available to essentially all players creates a bottleneck that your xp areas do not currently suffer.

Therefore, I think your best solutions would be to either integrate the gold removed from the gold areas into the xp areas, or create comparable areas that have much lower xp but higher gold that require large groups to obtain. However, as mentioned earlier, once large amounts of gold become available, they will filter down. Your overall limiting factor must be xp, by necessity. Its the only non-transferable medium in the game.

Overall, because the leveling tables are stepped, its not unusual for players to progress quickly through the first 1/3 of the available levels. The middle 1/3 should usually be representative of the overall pace the creators intended and the final 1/3 should represent the 'challenge' phase of the game.

And that was a hell of a lot longer than I anticipated.... Sorry. Its early. My brain isn't working yet.
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Postby Xamak » Sat May 23, 2009 3:23 pm

Since you already allow gold to be exchanged for XP, why not allow the opposite, but only to level? Or perhaps players could have the option of levelling for twice ( or some other number ) the exp requirement, but zero gold.
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Postby 12345 » Sat May 23, 2009 4:11 pm

I would argue that the issue exists because xp is in excess. Allowing it to eclipse both wouldn't seem like much of a solution.
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Postby Xamak » Sat May 23, 2009 4:20 pm

If people want to use double the exp to level in lieu of gold, I don't see how it would imbalance the game. The problem of course is caused by the large amount of exp sponged in groups. If someone disliked running gold, why not let them use more exp to level. The point of the game imho is to have fun. If exp is more fun then gold running for some, so be it.
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Postby Mosaix » Sat May 23, 2009 8:44 pm

Leave the gold alone. I am playing part time and still finding pleanty of gold.

Not sure about exp, right now it seems generous.
Though the harder levels 5-8 class are going to need exp to get through them let alone avatar class.

Avatars are gone. Avatar withdrawl is a bitch.

People are going to complain if they have millions in gold or not.

If the game is "corrected" everytime someone pitches a fit about something, this game will be bloated with avatars who are bored in a very short time span.

Good players will always be good players no matter what the conditions are.

Have fun, play hard, and enjoy this game.
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Postby sirrico1 » Sat May 23, 2009 9:16 pm

[quote="Mosaix":2mpjiprn]Leave the gold alone. I am playing part time and still finding pleanty of gold.

Not sure about exp, right now it seems generous.
Though the harder levels 5-8 class are going to need exp to get through them let alone avatar class.

Avatars are gone. Avatar withdrawl is a bitch.

People are going to complain if they have millions in gold or not.

If the game is "corrected" everytime someone pitches a fit about something, this game will be bloated with avatars who are bored in a very short time span.

Good players will always be good players no matter what the conditions are.

Have fun, play hard, and enjoy this game.[/quote:2mpjiprn]



well, we have alot of new players and some of us old players don't know the gold runs like the addicts do. and as for you elite players share the welth. I did not post this to get flamed so don't do it kthxbye
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Postby jezer » Sat May 23, 2009 10:15 pm

Seems a silly topic to me, how people play the game should be left to the players... not immortals trying to control the game. Why the heck would you want to control gold? Isn't this a players problem? Why are you making it your problem to control it? Gold is hard, but we are making do.

If I really want coins... I'll run coins over and over until I get rich. You can't stop me! Why are you trying so hard to control everything? Why don't you let go. Games are fun because you can choose what you want to do. I don't want to subscribe to Splorks 10 point plan of improvement... Controlled by set amounts of gold coins he permits me to have... I play this game cause I can do what I want and be who I want to be. Your taking the fun out of it, when you try and make it so linear.

Put a balance of gold on the mobs... that's your job, how much we choose to get and whether we have got enough to level is a problem for the player to work out.
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Postby Gimlet » Sun May 24, 2009 5:34 am

jezer, are you really that obnoxious to make such retarded comments?

yes, you can still get rich by running gold over and over again, that wasn't splork's argument....there was an area that was grossly overloaded with gold. to have like 20k gold per mob that dies on a frostbolt or 2 is kinda overkill.

sure you can play however you want, but just don't expect them to create a mud to suit you. he's not controlling how you play, he's just controlling how much the mud wants to give you.

i really don't see how gold is a problem. even as a lvl 20, i was getting gold pretty easily. there are plenty of ways to get gold other than actually getting gold from mobs. I've walked through areas like kobolds, and goblins, to see loads of junk lying around on the floor like jars of goo and various kinds of dust. I don't understand why ppl bitch about gold, yet are too dumb to take these and sell them to the shops.

people need to stop relying on groups for everything. right now, it gives an insane amount of xp. I've been leading quite a lot for the past few days, and i've been tracking the xp gathered by group. It averages to about 400-500mil per hr, with a -8 tank and 2 restorers. I don't think we even came close to that on s3. What you have now are a bunch of people with too many levels to know what to do with it. When i don't have enough gold to level, i go gather gold, easy as that. I think the current situation is great as in you can't just expect to sit in a group for 3 hours and expect to gain 5 prime levels automatically. You have to spend time outside of the group.

sirrico said that only the old timers know the gold runs. sure, but didn't these guys know the runs from actually playing the mud and learning? remember that there already is alot of information avaialable now to new palyers that weren't available to the old-timers when they first started.
the simple solution is to learn the mud, instead of constantly asking the mud to be made easier because nobody has a clue what to do if there aren't groups around
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Postby Mosaix » Mon May 25, 2009 12:51 pm

My post was not a flame. Your response validates most of my post.

Have fun and mud already. This is a great opportunity to just go out and have fun with sloth.
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Postby Magi » Mon May 25, 2009 2:20 pm

Just one quick response... It is NOT the admin's job to put gold on the mobs. It is the admin's job to work 8-12 hours a day to support themselves, feed their families, and pay taxes. Then they relax by messing around on the computer at night. Anything they decide to do for us is a FREE bonus for us. Not. Their. Job.
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Postby Gimlet » Mon May 25, 2009 3:08 pm

[quote="Mosaix":34kcrtr4]My post was not a flame. Your response validates most of my post.

Have fun and mud already. This is a great opportunity to just go out and have fun with sloth.[/quote:34kcrtr4]

don't know if u were resopnding to me, but iw asn't responding to your post, i agreed with you :)
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