How to charm mobs and solo entire areas.

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How to charm mobs and solo entire areas.

Postby Gorka » Wed May 06, 2020 6:22 am

It's recently been stated that charming mobs and wiping entire areas solo is not an exploit... So lets test the theory... ever wanted to run all of dragon mount or draconian lair solo... well it's easy! Stop spending hundreds of hours in groups, or saving 1000 drachma for +1 damage.

All you need is saves para eq and a little bit of knowledge. Firstly, try and collect as many of these items as you can...

http://slothmudeq.tk/?savepar=on

In the case of the runes, which are t1's and easy to collect, socket them to junk rings or spiked boots. Make sure you have grace up, and sing "Fare thee well" to increase your saves para by another -4.

To charm a mob it must be level 40 or less, not have up mindbar and not be ethereal.

Visit some of the following mobs...

Stone Mason - AH Crypt
Hate Filled Undead Soliders - Phantom Creek (Visage First)
Youna - Dao Citadel
Akmee - Dao Citadel
Grunnik - Dao Citadel

cast 'charm person' and the name of the mob. In most cases the mob will begin following you. Make sure you stone or iron the mob, and aegis them. Simply "order followers assist <your name>."

Youna, the Slate Prince reports 6278/6278 hp. Need: 0. 191/450 ma. 122/124 mv.
Akmee, the Granite Prince reports 7176/7176 hp. Need: 0. 100/100 ma. 122/124 mv.

<1512hp 274ma 655mv -15.0ac The Dragon Mountain 67%>
You skillfully parry the attack of a male black dragon.
Your riposte viciously massacres a male black dragon.
A male black dragon misses you with his claw.
You are viciously massacred by a male black dragon's claw.
You are viciously massacred by a male black dragon's claw.
You are viciously massacred by a male black dragon's bite.
Akmee, the Granite Prince viciously massacres a male black dragon with its pound.
Akmee, the Granite Prince viciously massacres a male black dragon with its pound.
Akmee, the Granite Prince viciously massacres a male black dragon with its pound.
Akmee, the Granite Prince viciously massacres a male black dragon with its pound.
Akmee, the Granite Prince viciously massacres a male black dragon with its pound.
Youna, the Slate Prince's pierce bounces off a male black dragon's thick scales.
Youna, the Slate Prince viciously massacres a male black dragon with his pierce.
Youna, the Slate Prince viciously massacres a male black dragon with his pierce.
Youna, the Slate Prince viciously massacres a male black dragon with his pierce.
Youna, the Slate Prince viciously massacres a male black dragon with his stab.
You viciously massacre a male black dragon with your slash.
You viciously massacre a male black dragon with your slash.
You viciously massacre a male black dragon with your slash.
You viciously massacre a male black dragon with your slash.
A male black dragon lunges forward and issues a black cloud from his jaws!
AHHH! a male black dragon gestures and a piece of your body disappears.
Youna, the Slate Prince utters the words, 'yufzxuie'
Youna, the Slate Prince gestures dramatically, and a male black dragon is roasted in a burning wind.

Happy Days Everyone!

Once this is fixed, patched, or removed - make a bard... come tell us how awesome it is...
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Re: How to charm mobs and solo entire areas.

Postby Josiah » Wed May 06, 2020 2:11 pm

The benefit to being a bard in this situation is what... dance of the seven luck gods? I'm so confused why you conflate charm and bard.

Your list of requirements also omits the part about being strong enough to tank for your pets. Most players are not max-reborn warriors and take significant damage when getting smashed by a dragon.
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Re: How to charm mobs and solo entire areas.

Postby Driven » Fri May 08, 2020 11:34 am

IIRC, charmed mobs steal xp from you. So yes, if you manage to survive the order lag (2 full rounds), and you manage to time the deathblow so that your charmed mob doesn't get the deathblow, then congratz on working your tail off for capped xp. AFAIK, the only reason to do this is for equipment and/or AQ mobs, but since most of the elite equipment in the game is drachma, and we have so few equipment groups, I don't see how this discourages people from grouping. How is this any different than mage-styling a mob, or using second wind to cancel strike lag and retreating out? Am I missing something?
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Re: How to charm mobs and solo entire areas.

Postby Gorka » Fri May 08, 2020 1:41 pm

Driven wrote:Am I missing something?


Yes, it's massively OP, more than anything else in the game. Funny how all you builders have decided to turn a blind eye to it, yet make us scrimp for +1's costing hundreds of drachma. The game's a joke. I mean it always was, but now even more so. Josiah, Oboe and Mirage all try and sweeten the hack, and you all turn your coats. You expect bards and necro's to collect massive amounts of charisma and undead control for nothing and then let this fly. Where is the game's creditably. So dumb. Do you even care about the game anymore or is it all just about you and your buddies? *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge* I'm disgusted. Gorka's spent trillions of xp to get to where he is, and here is a couple of followers allowing players the same power for practically nothing. And here you all are pretending to be "measured."
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Re: How to charm mobs and solo entire areas.

Postby Driven » Fri May 08, 2020 1:54 pm

And how is strike, second wind, retreat not just as OP? I would argue strike/second wind/retreat is even more OP because it requires no skin in the game whatsoever, and there is literally no limit to the size of the mob you can kill, whereas followers have a very real limit. And yet you haven't stood on your high horse and declared how OP it is, demanding that it be fixed... no, you have quietly used it. Over and over and over again.
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Re: How to charm mobs and solo entire areas.

Postby Gorka » Fri May 08, 2020 2:46 pm

Yeah, good one Driven... Wanna tell everyone who you asked to teach you the trick? You also know full well you don't need second wind to do it either... Phi demonstrated this on Lucifer yesterday. Also you will find in the topics on this forum regarding second wind that I believe it should be nerfed to only work with skills and not spells.

But lets get real here, you've sensed (to your surprise) that there is actually support for this exploit among people with more power and influence, and being as insecure as you are, always trying to please people, you've decided it's in your best interests to score a few credits with buddies, than to speak the truth, and make the work that players put into improving there character seem more creditable - than exploiting 5 or 6 beefcake mobs with incorrect levels. Every single one of the mobs being exploited in these cases is normally 41 or 42. Enjoy your 30 pieces of silver. The things we do in life echo in eternity.

MOB : titanic earth elemental elem LVL : 41 AREA : Earth Plane Extension 27970652
MOB : templar holy man knight LVL : 41 AREA : The Lost Cross 28001680
MOB : fire dragon LVL : 41 AREA : The Thordfalan Volcano 28061085
MOB : ettin mason giant LVL : 42 AREA : Ettin Village 28067054
MOB : duke mesto larghetto LVL : 41 AREA : Opera Symphonia 28094785
MOB : stone mason LVL : 37 AREA : The Crypt 28135659
MOB : knight ruby LVL : 41 AREA : The Lost Cross 28187132
MOB : ettin male father giant large LVL : 41 AREA : Ettin Village 28212816
MOB : froghemoth frog beast lurker devil min LVL : 41 AREA : The Lower Planes - Minauros 28214556
MOB : antox defender warrior LVL : 42 AREA : Orc Mines 28235082
MOB : keeper gate gatekeeper titan fire flame LVL : 41 AREA : Plane of Fire Extension 28273191
MOB : kara sa devourer LVL : 42 AREA : Kara'sa 28459677
MOB : Bore Brontes cyclops LVL : 42 AREA : Mount Olympus 28558529
MOB : katrya al'esha dragon knight knight general dragoness LVL : 41 AREA : Onyx Tower 28582052
MOB : skeletal skeleton master undead LVL : 41 AREA : City of the Undead 28601628
MOB : valpurgeist geist undead man corpse LVL : 41 AREA : Negative Energy Plane 28614940
MOB : red guard LVL : 41 AREA : Kara'sa 28989608
MOB : white dragon female queen LVL : 41 AREA : The Dragon Mountain 29168273
MOB : Archangel Michael arch angel LVL : 41 AREA : Eden 29309908
MOB : Spider Leng LVL : 41 AREA : Valley of R'Lyeh 29366233
Last edited by Gorka on Fri May 08, 2020 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Game Inbalances

Postby Hung » Fri May 08, 2020 2:51 pm

I agree that charms are OP. However I agree either that this feature is justified due to struggles of making eq group nowadays.

Since discussion is moving towards game inbalances in general, I can't hesistate to share my thoughts there.
I think there are 3 major inbalances:
1. Weak bards and useless charisma. There's neighbor topic related to that, so I wouldnt repeat here what was said there.

2. Useless non-prime clerics. While prime clerics are cool(not the strongest prime class and yet fun and interesting to play), experienced players dont choose cleric as second class. Many don't even put it third. Since there's nothing to gain from position of cleric in the class order other than eudaemon, some put it even fifth.

I think it's balance issue, since if I was a new player, I'd definitely had chosen wa/cl. As paladin is supposed to be optimal choice for many RPGs. Well, SlothMUD is exception. And non-intuitive wa/dr is better choice than intuitive wa/cl.

This issue could be addressed by rehauling supplications after eudaemon so they'd become useful.
Another suggestion is to add non-prime weaker alternative of "dark mace", which power would depend on 40s after cleric in the class order. I think it would be cool, if you could play as prime warrior and yet smash undeads.

3. Weak necro pets. I've played necro up to 4x40(also my 6x40 bard has necro fourth) and generally I think that efforts(mana cost mostly) to summon/animate and buff pets don't worth the payoff.

I'd suggest to make higher level pets buff and even heal themselves.
Yang/Hippo/Kid/Diogenes
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Re: How to charm mobs and solo entire areas.

Postby Gorka » Fri May 08, 2020 3:27 pm

Not one of the "elite" charmable mobs matches the level of the mobs that are in the same xp group as them. It's clearly an oversight. Only mobs below/equal lvl 40 are charmable, and there aren't actually many good ones... 40's are nearly impossible to charm in most cases. The ones that are good, are mistakes or unintentional exploits by corrupted or ignorant builders. Because no sane immortal charges 1000 drachma for +1 damage, then allows for 5 vicious attacks, blasting double sized Gorka followers so cheaply. And the people who defend that clearly live outside the rules of the understandings given to the common players in this game.

MOB : night terror dark evil LVL : 42 AREA : Lair of Nyarlathotep 13619120
MOB : Adelina Rumar jeweler LVL : 42 AREA : Raven Glade 13636829
MOB : mountain troll patrol leader LVL : 41 AREA : The Mines of Moria 13679277
MOB : blue dragon adult male LVL : 41 AREA : The Dragon Mountain 13750245
MOB : draconian hunter LVL : 41 AREA : Crystal Falls 13797856
MOB : mold attacking deadly LVL : 41 AREA : Mount 'An Mystica 13810224
MOB : spectre emperor kazar undead LVL : 41 AREA : Temple of Luna 13823041
MOB : Youna slate prince grey dao LVL : 39 AREA : The Dao Citadel 13834563
MOB : juiblex faceless lord LVL : 42 AREA : Ettin Village 13855179
MOB : akmee granite prince dao LVL : 39 AREA : The Dao Citadel 13915923
MOB : khrodomaire gith githyanki warden LVL : 42 AREA : Herbalist Isle II 14008068
MOB : vampire bartender LVL : 41 AREA : Dark Dreams 14011992
MOB : Syrrinian Shadow Warrior LVL : 41 AREA : City of Theris 14028472
MOB : Vaprak ogre god destroyer quest epic LVL : 42 AREA : Ogre Caverns 14057028
MOB : gariph hero man LVL : 41 AREA : The Crypt 14135532
MOB : mohrg skeleton demon undead LVL : 41 AREA : Shadow Dale 14178790
MOB : ancient dragon dracolich draco LVL : 41 AREA : Subterranean Palace of the Undead 14297725
MOB : beast beasthead giant LVL : 41 AREA : Valley of Dust and Fire 14306396
MOB : galavan elite swordsman sword LVL : 41 AREA : The Rainbow Valley 14371884
MOB : minotaur man beast LVL : 41 AREA : The Crypt 14483424

MOB : vengeful spirit vapor man LVL : 42 AREA : Phantom Creek 6611095
MOB : albino sea scorpion LVL : 41 AREA : Pathways of Herbalist 6643999
MOB : guardian angel LVL : 42 AREA : The Clouds 6663304
MOB : nightrunner night man master thief LVL : 40 AREA : Den of Thieves 6688341
MOB : wife aisha LVL : 42 AREA : Kingdom of Salamis 6736013
MOB : hate filled undead soldier LVL : 40 AREA : Phantom Creek 6736343
MOB : Sebek LVL : 42 AREA : Valley of the Great Ones 6780205
MOB : undead nereid water LVL : 42 AREA : Subterranean Palace of the Undead 6781933
MOB : eye deep beholder LVL : 41 AREA : Kuo-Toan Hamlet 6810627
MOB : white dragon LVL : 41 AREA : The Nordik Trek 6842403
MOB : lizard lizardman man monk LVL : 41 AREA : The Jungles of Sess'Inek 6845108
MOB : chert beast large spiked rock LVL : 42 AREA : The Thordfalan Volcano 6860384
MOB : soft shelled turtle LVL : 41 AREA : Ch'ung Kuo 6863223
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Re: How to charm mobs and solo entire areas.

Postby Driven » Fri May 08, 2020 5:14 pm

You continue to evade the point, Gorka, so let me state this is as clearly as I can, because you are just as guilty of this as anyone else, so to suddenly act like you are the one with the halo is beyond me. Charm person is just one OP technique of many that enables you to kill mobs that you otherwise wouldn't be able to solo. The "problem", if you even want to call it that, is much larger than charm person.

And to use the rationale "I've been in favor of changing second wind to just use skills" ignores the fact that strike is a skill... unless you really were intending for strike to be discounted too. But again, words mean nothing. If you felt this strongly about it being OP and that the 'integrity of the game was at stake', then you wouldn't have used it, yet you did. Now that Gorka can legitimately kill things without these techniques, now you suddenly find the integrity of the game at stake? Just stop.

What makes something like charmable mobs, second wind, mage style, etc, OP is the end result -- killing large mobs that you otherwise wouldn't / shouldn't be able to kill. How you get there is irrelevant. If your intent is to remove all OP things, then we need to do the following:
- Make retreat and flee only work after you have entered a full round of battle -- as in, you have to survive a full round of battle prior to being allowed to retreat/flee.
- Make shapeshift tree only work after you have entered a full round of battle.
- Lock down the use of charmable mobs, removing the powerful ones completely.
- Lock down the use of control undead mobs, removing the powerful ones completely.
- Remove the ability for the fury gauntlets to accumulate above 100k spirit points.

Am I missing any? I'm sure I am.

I happen to think it adds a fun aspect to the game in which knowledge is power, and, if you remove every possible one of these, then you're left with a much more boring game. Hence, I have allowed it--none of this is a surprise to me. I use these techniques only when I have to. I have been open about my use of retreat to take down large mobs ever since I was 3x40, so who exactly do you think I'm trying to hide from?

You seem to think this one particular flavor (charm mob) is somehow worse than the others... I disagree. They all fall under the same umbrella.
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Re: How to charm mobs and solo entire areas.

Postby Driven » Fri May 08, 2020 6:45 pm

And for the record, there is a limit here. If some of the more powerful charms make it stupid simple, then let's talk about it. These techniques should be challenging, but doable. Try doing it with Tonedeaf against a 50m eq mob and let me know how 'easy' it is.
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