High Priest of Wisdom has been banished to the ethereal plan

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High Priest of Wisdom has been banished to the ethereal plan

Postby Gorka » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:57 pm

This thread is a spinoff from the Rebirth Shop thread where I called the new gauntlets of fury overpowered.

I wasn't questioning your motives Driven, just pointing out the facts...

I informed Neptune (briefly) and Breeze (a series of emails) a couple of weeks ago that I had somewhat reverse engineered how the gauntlets of fury worked, found some big mobs and spent hours building procs on them, that I might do this... the first known player in the game to kill a drachma shop keeper.

I've vaulted the eq with the intent to hand it back to an immortal... Breeze has stated that if anyone kills a drachma keeper he will congratulate them and then wipe them. It's up to him what he does with me, but I had no intention of hiding what I've done. As the High Priest has just repopped, it would seem I would have gotten away with it completely if I had chosen to be dishonest. Without buying and selling nothing gets added to my wrap sheets... If I wasn't greedy I could take 1 piece junk the rest, no one would know.

Let me tell you everything that is wrong with the gauntlets from a power perspective.

* You can build seemingly unlimited procs.
* Procs can do about 5000 damage.
* Because the mobs are often blinded they don't see you on reentry.
* There is no lag associated with using a proc.
* You can fairly easily work out how the gauntlets work and build procs to kill big targets.
* You can proc in no cast rooms.

The Treasure Chest
The interior of this quaint shop is shaped just like the interior of a
treasure chest. Old planking was used to cover the floor, walls, and
ceiling, and offers a rustic look to the shop. A shiny clasp has been
placed low on the southern part of the ceiling and was designed to look
like a lock on a normal chest.
Exits: South
A distinguished gentleman paces back and forth about the room.
High Priest of Wisdom glows with a bright light!

<1470hp 769ma 527mv -6.9ac Bal Harbor Town #indoors# 8:35 am -%>
You unleash a massive pyroclasm on High Priest of Wisdom!!
High Priest of Wisdom has been banished to the ethereal plane!
You gain 3533333 bonus experience!
You gain 10000000 extra bonus experience!
Total exp for kill is 950719212.
-------------
MOB : Priest High Wisdom man LVL : 42 AREA : Bal Harbor Town XP : 950719212
-------------
war
warcry LEEEEEROOOY JEEEENKINS!!!
Everything High Priest of Wisdom was carrying suddenly drops to the ground.

l
The Treasure Chest
The interior of this quaint shop is shaped just like the interior of a
treasure chest. Old planking was used to cover the floor, walls, and
ceiling, and offers a rustic look to the shop. A shiny clasp has been
placed low on the southern part of the ceiling and was designed to look
like a lock on a normal chest.
Exits: South
A fortune in gold rests here invitingly.
A wide belt, seemingly made of worked stone, has been set here...It glows violet!..It emits a faint
humming sound!
A huge, wide belt of worn, worked leather has been discarded here...It glows violet!
A set of metal leggings have been left here...It emits a faint humming sound!
A pair of boots are on the ground here...It has a soft glowing aura!
A black piece of cloth that seems to bend the shadows around it...It glows violet!..It has a soft
glowing aura!
A pair of stone sleeves have been left here...It glows violet!..It emits a faint humming sound!
A brilliant green emerald glows with an inner light...It glows violet!
A loop of hair is on the ground here...It has a soft glowing aura!
A small emblem shaped like a rose has been dropped here.
A set of icy shoulder guards is lying here...It glows violet!..It has a soft glowing aura!
The air is a bit distorted near the ground...It has a soft glowing aura!
The air is a bit distorted near the ground...It has a soft glowing aura!
A dark colored bracer is on the ground here...It emits a faint humming sound!
A miniature skull, mounted to a bone ring, grins up at you...It glows red!..It glows violet!..It has a
soft glowing aura!
A large rock is on the ground here...It emits a faint humming sound!
A small, white ring levitates above the ground...It glows violet!..It has a soft glowing aura!
A jeweled girdle has been left on the ground here...It glows violet!..It has a soft glowing aura!
A small shiny diamond piece has been dropped here by mistake.

<1470hp 769ma 527mv -6.9ac Bal Harbor Town #indoors# 8:39 am -%>
A voice in your head says 'My victim no longer inhabits this mortal coil.'

<1470hp 769ma 528mv -6.9ac Bal Harbor Town #indoors# 8:40 am -%>
get all
You deftly snatch gold coins.
There were 240843 coins.
You deftly snatch a girdle of stone giant strength.
You deftly snatch a girdle of hill giant strength.
You deftly snatch Redsteel Legplates of Hades.
You deftly snatch Boots of the Forest Walker.
You deftly snatch a thief's shadow bending half-cloak.
You deftly snatch amethyst-inlaid mithril bracers of the Dwarf Lords.
You deftly snatch an emerald of insight.
You deftly snatch loop of samson's hair.
You deftly snatch an emblem of a rose.
You deftly snatch icy shoulder guards.
You deftly snatch glowing shield of the High Priestess.
You deftly snatch Flaming Shield of Midnight.
You deftly snatch Sacred Bracer of the Dark Order.
shrunken : You can't take that.
You deftly snatch book of the old forgotten tales.
You deftly snatch Ring of Radiance.
You deftly snatch Jeweled Girdle of the Black Wizard.
You deftly snatch a diamond chip.

<1470hp 769ma 529mv -6.9ac Bal Harbor Town #indoors# 8:42 am -%>
l
The Treasure Chest
The interior of this quaint shop is shaped just like the interior of a
treasure chest. Old planking was used to cover the floor, walls, and
ceiling, and offers a rustic look to the shop. A shiny clasp has been
placed low on the southern part of the ceiling and was designed to look
like a lock on a normal chest.
Exits: South
A miniature skull, mounted to a bone ring, grins up at you...It glows red!..It glows violet!..It has a
soft glowing aura!

<1470hp 769ma 529mv -6.9ac Bal Harbor Town #indoors# 8:49 am -%>
get skull
You can't take that.

Using the same technique I could achieve about 1 kill in the coliseum about every 3-5 seconds I believe... giving me a coliseum score of at least 100.

My point is Driven, I don't doubt your motives, but I don't think you understand how open for abuse and overpower some of the things you have done are.

BTW: The simple solution to this new problem is to give all shop keepers reflection back to the player of the elemental attack. For example, grab the elementalist in ether plan when his shield is up and it equates to a death proc for the player.
Gimme a G! Gimme a ORKA!
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Re: High Priest of Wisdom has been banished to the ethereal

Postby Driven » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:09 pm

The gauntlets should not be usable in a safe room... I will fix. The gauntlets themselves are a couple thousand lines of code... anything this complicated is going to have some bugs sneak through. In the future please just let me know what the bugs are right away so I can fix them, or the powers that be will simply stop allowing cool stuff like this to be put into the game.

And yes, you can build up energy against mobs to take them down, but the amount of work to do so is insane, as you have shown. For cycling a mob, this is not a particularly reasonable pursuit as there are much easier ways to cycle large mobs.

What other loopholes have you found? In the context of our prior conversation, I don't see the gauntlets as a major boost in power... can they be used to do some pretty cool stuff? Sure, that's kind of the point.

And I will lock down the item so it can't be unleashed in the coliseum.
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Re: High Priest of Wisdom has been banished to the ethereal

Postby Gorka » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:39 pm

I had informed Breeze of the exploit, because I had asked him if I would be able to try and kill the keeper under his supervision... as it's every players dream. We kept missing each other online and getting a chance to talk about it and test it. Usually I would have just told you... Because this discussion happened on the forum, I took the liberty and then emailed Breeze and Nep. Breeze has been busy in r/l. I've being waiting over 2 weeks to do it. I figured the other players were way off getting there gaunts to lvl 10, and also probably hadn't thought about it.

Anyone gets a chance to be a great warrior, not everyone gets a chance to kill a drachma shop keeper, and even if it was the last thing I did... the smile on my face in bed that night after killing one of those over priced bastages was gonna be a comeuppance for all the players! It really came down to the comedy of the situation being the reason to hold up on the solutions. :twisted: :)

In a perfect world, shop keepers shouldn't really be mobs in the first place... it's always going to make them vulnerable to death and looting. Secondly, there protections aren't so great for the modern sloth.
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Re: High Priest of Wisdom has been banished to the ethereal

Postby Gorka » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:05 pm

* You can build seemingly unlimited procs.
* Procs can do about 5000 damage.
* Because the mobs are often blinded they don't see you on reentry.
* There is no lag associated with using a proc.
* You can fairly easily work out how the gauntlets work and build procs to kill big targets.
* You can proc in no cast rooms.

What other loopholes have you found?


Well first of all I have a pair of your gauntlets and rather like them. Do I think 5000 damage is high... yes, but whatever. I'm still coming to grips with the modern proc damages. I'm not sure the poison proc works, the web spell is weird and doesn't seem useful. The slow is great, and the blind is powerful. But a group of players with these could literally finish an epic in like 15-20% of the time with lvl 10 gaunts. Has there ever been a damage increase this large? Ever? If it takes 20 rounds to get a 5000 dam proc that's an extra 250 damage per round you've given them. You don't think that defines OP? Does killing the drachma keeper define OP?

Should there be a lag with a proc? Well, It's probably ok like it is. At the moment I can rush a mob in a room and proc it multiple times before it can reply... unless it's an epic or 100m mob, this equates to a death proc for it. Is that not OP?

I'm not sure that you shouldn't limit the amount of procs you can store in a spirit bucket... but as long as the coliseum and shop keepers get fixed, it's ok to keep this unlimited.

Obviously allowing the grabbing of a mob in a safe room was an accident. I think having the spirit level as a number showing on touch, allows players to find other mobs who use the same bucket. That's exploitable.

I just don't see, how you can not see how powerful these things are. Why people groan about warriors being over powered, when practically every warrior I know plays another primary style that is not warrior style to kill big mobs. This is what upsets me. Then for these lies to be weaponized and used against us... These gauntlets were conceived from a political situation. To have my hard work invested into Gorka factored down to "warrior privilege..." it's malevolent. There are some issues, but I feel people don't understand them well, and the solutions are not well thought out. Warriors have been vilified. All that needed to happen to warriors was restrict second wind to skills, and be not allow another warcry till engaged mob is dead or a small cool off period has passed (30secs). Warrior "OP" issues were solved. Instead I've been vilified, and mages are walking around all smug with death procs. Hard not to feel a bit riped off really. Perhaps if mages maintained better attitudes I could support them more to get there issues fixed. This is what my bad feelings boils down to. I can talk more in private with you, about what I think, when you have your ideas clearer about what changes you think are the best to make. Only small adjustments are required I think. I have nothing against mages being powerful, more power to them, just don't vilify others to get what you want. That sucks.
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Re: High Priest of Wisdom has been banished to the ethereal

Postby Driven » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:09 pm

Gauntlets are fixed for both safe rooms and the coliseum. Please let me know if the fixes look incomplete or you think of any other loopholes.
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Re: High Priest of Wisdom has been banished to the ethereal

Postby cyprimus » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:24 am

Yes, i agree gorka. mages are evil.

Oh, and that other stuff too.
Seems like changes are being made without consideration of long term effects or without knowledge of current game. However, it is how ppl learn. Eggs will be broken!

Don't be an egg!

I worldwalked too hundreds of muds over the years, and in all of them, the only thing that seemed to matter is offence. Sloth was the only one i found that allowed you to play other styles and did not force you to do rp, forges, quests, or be all offense... we have lost that, anyone not playing a damage character gets low drac from pit, slow exp solo. Chop is all that is left for 'weak' characters now.

Please let other play styles catch up!

Oh, and ban all mage primes!!!!

Thanks for reporting the bug Gorka! I have seen to many times over the years when ppl exploit bugs, and never report them. Myself i got in trouble for reporting one ages ago too. Hopefully they will not treat you like rancid pond scum for years like they did me..

GL
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Re: High Priest of Wisdom has been banished to the ethereal

Postby Josiah » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:45 pm

Congrats, brave sir Gorka.

I did a proof of concept with several methods of drachma vendor slaying, but I never took them past small wounds and bruises because I was asked not to.

The easiest fix for every method I can think of is to add ethereal and the Arcane Ooze's "immune to nightmare" property to all the vendors. (Along with the safe room fix).
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Re: High Priest of Wisdom has been banished to the ethereal

Postby Gorka » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:05 pm

Thanks Josiah, yes there are at least two other ways I suspect I could get drachma shopkeepers to take damage. If their equipment is to be really safeguarded, they really shouldn't be mobs. Furthermore if these other ways did work they probably wouldn't be economical. I literally procced the high priest to death in a couple of minutes while Wind (the player) slept in the next room. If people like myself actually had a way to get small amounts of renewable drachma for hard work, maybe our minds wouldn't wander into these dark places in the first place. I don't think there is enough drachma left in the game at the moment for me to even buy the cheapest clasp. I'm totally reliant on imm run quests on the public holidays, which are fine, but I don't think 150 drachma received botting in a group for 2 hours encourages the type of players the game needs. Ideally drachma should be earned... not "soaked." I think Nep's token forge idea is a better way, where the reward is earned. Drachma for some of those old outdated forges is a great idea in my opinion.
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