Leveling Gold, the Gold Grind and Gold Bonus

[Teron]

Greetings.

Since I've recently done the first steps of the final stretch to 9x40, I've got astonished at how much gold I really need to level (75mil for 15 levels).

If from 5x40 to 8x40 I barely made by leading/tanking, then at 8x40 25+ even leading or tanking isn't enough to get one coins to level. So I've started grinding gold instead of leading groups, and it is very, very boring, feels like a job. And then it hit me.

Since players require both exp and gold to level, they need to grind both. Earlier, Splork has realized that merely barely upping exp isn't enough, and added exp bonus for tri40+ players, which we all enjoy and are grateful for.

However, Splork didn't give us any gold increases. What's more, some gold areas were nerfed, some deserved that (Mansion), some not. It all means that players, while getting adequate exp, now have to grind gold to level.

I theorize that by adding more gold to some areas, which aren't gold ones now, or just adding an added gold bonus per kill, we'll see more people leveling and leveling faster, which should increase engagement and retention as added exp bonus did.

Another way to make gold would be to pop eq or sell forges, but given the low number of players, this business is particularly risky and non-existent, which means that gold farming is just more efficient, if boring. Also, once I polish a process to forge an item, the changes go in that make it harder, which is another topic altogether.

Yet another way to get gold would be to solo Lyme, but given that a few 9x40 players can and do clean it in a few runs, this isn't a viable strategy, imho.

Of course, this is my opinion based on my experience, so share yours:
- do you get enough gold by doing exp or you need to grind gold, too?
- are you satisfied with how much gold you get on your gold runs across several areas?
- what's your opinion on gold farming: do we desperately need a gold bonus or a gold area or two would suffice?

Thanks.

[Josiah]

I've always done well with selling equipment, forges, gems, and services like cycling for obscure equipment for a fee. Obviously that isn't an option for everyone. Running lyme xp is definitely profitable for those that can do it, so really the problem lies with those who group, and those who solo poorly.

For the average player, grouping has always been unusually good experience/hour, and requires taking time off occasionally for gold farming from one of the many lucrative areas (which tend to offer bad xp).

I'm on the fence about whether this is good game design, but clearly the premise that when maximizing your xp/hour, you should be gifted with enough gold to use it is questionable.

If leveling costs are a game-breaking pain point for most players, the appropriate response would be to lower the costs rather than increase available coin.

I think there are always unrecognized opportunities for entrepreneuring players. Early in s4 I sold two ruby gems for 50 million gold each, and never looked back. Once I was high level and soloing well, I was able to generate coins and bought the gems I needed.

Selling gems is available to all players, and works best for those in the groups that 'don't get enough coins.' And the soloing players with all the money want to buy them! It's a win win.

[cyprimus]

Its temporary Taron. once you get thru it, it will be easy.. I said essentially the same thing with cy... and with the exp increase... yet now, i leveled with a remorts bonus and still was able to not have to gold.

Max avvie shop is 1000 exp to one coin.. this is the 'golden ratio' for the codebase.. if your getting more coins that that, in the end you will be great.. if your getting less, then you will have coins problems.

I am sure several ppl would be happy to loan coins either to get you leading or to get interest...

As for the system, well, i pointed out before that added exp with no coins, but in the long run, its not an issue.

And Josiah, yep, amazing how me buying gems from someone can suddenly make them.. lol. I try and find a reason to help those that are trying. Sometimes i takes the form of tanking for some druid thats really trying ...or burying them in coins... each player is different.

anyways, just waking up ...

[Vegetable]

I have a problem with gold as well. Mainly due to funding leveling cost for myself and the wife...... However, I'm not at Taron's level to worry too much about it yet. I still run gold from time to time before I have enough XP to level. Nevertheless, it will be good to see more gold areas to the game (Ideally solo with reasonable XP and somewhere off lyme!). I saw some great area of this kind introduced just recently to the mud and I think we are on the right track. Hope to see more of these areas in the future.

- Vege

[Teron]

Josiah, you are right, you did remind me that my exp/hr ratio in groups is pretty good. But then again, what does one expect, if imms force us to leave Lyme and exp offlyme, and to group, rather than solo? Given enough time, any leader will optimize his exp/hr above some level.

In the last half a year, I've done some leading and through practice improved my leading somewhat. Before that, other leaders spent weeks leading great exp groups in pretty much the same areas. If you recall Wimpy's leading, you'll notice that he did pretty much the same areas I prefer to hit (or the other way around) - and I've only realized this after already taking a break from leading.

What I am saying is, given our game restrictions and bonuses (low exp chop, no nocap on Lyme, offlyme group exp bonus and low solo gem pop rates and no T3 gems solo), great group exp is the obvious outcome.

Sure, we can 2-5man Lyme instead. I tried that 2man and made half the exp I do in groups, and about 1/3 of gold I can farm per hr off Lyme. I may be able to get 2/3 of group exp on Lyme if I run as fast as Surfnazi, but there is just not enough space on Lyme for 2 9x40s or groups, let alone several.

I also understand that gaining 9x40 is a rite of passage, the last levels are just brutal and 9x40 does give you lots of power. And I see how just asking about gold seems like a lazy way out. That being said, I've farmed almost enough gold to level 9x40, so I'm suggesting a change not for my benefit, but for others.

If we abstract ourselves from group exp, gold farming, rites of passage, and only consider that there were statistically-supported reasons to add exp bonus that made our lives easier, shouldn't there be a gold bonus as well?

I too think that the reasonable solution would've been to reduce the level exp requirements and I have no idea why it wasn't done, which is why I suggested increasing gold as well. If immorts find a way to reduce level gold requirements, that'd be fine by me, because it wouldn't affect forge costs noticeably and wouldn't require doing anything else and discussing it endlessly.

[Ker]

Zhou Zan,

+1 T

Regards,
Dr

[Teron]

I'm on the fence about whether this is good game design, but clearly the premise that when maximizing your xp/hour, you should be gifted with enough gold to use it is questionable.

I agree.

Ideally, in my opinion:
- if you really maximize exp/hr, then you should need to grind gold - a bit
- if you solo exp, you don't have to grind gold to level
- if you need to do forges or buy vaults, you probably need to grind gold

Grinding gold should not be an activity that everyone must do to level. It does not add anything enjoyable or challenging to the game play. Some might say that it requires you to explore, but most often, you just go to one of the few known areas/mobs and camp them endlessly, relentlessly. Even if you do explore, you end up killing the same mobs over and over and over and over. And over.

In another MUD, you don't need gold to level, but you need gold to buy stats or things. It is pretty enjoyable to level, when you can do it, and you know, if you want to buy expensive things on auction, you need to shift from exp to gold and still get some exp in the process. That being said, the maximum prices there are 2-3 times larger, than here, perhaps because they have x20 more online players, than we do.

WoW has gone from the similar process of grinding before raids to not needing lots of preparation in terms of grinding - you almost always have gold to buy potions/medium enchants/gems and, if you are a hardcore raider, you need to make some gold on the auction to afford high end enchants/gems, especially, early in the addon.

What I'm saying is, maybe we don't need hours of gold farming to get one level beyond 5x40. If earlier exp grinding was mindnumbing (and still is, to an extent), then gold farming is more so.

[*Idjit*]

People have always been free to sell me gems for gold.
But a lot have a trade-only mentality about tier-3's.
Which is a whole other discussion, or maybe not.
--Zuzu