Quests - what do you want to see

[cyprimus]

Well, good to see ppl finally speaking up.

What i was talking about in exchange rates was making currancy/reward types to keep balance.. for example, your worried an autoquester would make unlimited drac... so make it reward with 'prize points' that can only be used to buy the existing drac eq.... or 'accessory points' used only to purchased temporary or charged items. Make the reward balanced.. and again, maybe you can trade drac for these points,, but not these points for drac.. etc.


I have a token of recall too... had it for ages.. dunno who else even has... loaned out a lot.. etc.. not very useful. poorly organize list etc..

The important thing is that even if your the only person on, you should be able to do something that advances your character..

Would like to drag teker to a few of the muds i still play that have different systems so he can see the differnt systems i am explaining poorly..

[*Splork*]

Well listing the quest data on the website was brilliant and well executed. It's a lot of information to take in, so really I think the web is a good format.

I agree 100% and was part of this project with Breeze. We have always led the way in terms of displaying live data on our website and will continue to do so. I just feel that it shouldn't be the only way to see some vital information...

There should be several ways to display data in-game that doesn't make it overwhelming or unreadable but the website definitely allows us to display mass amounts of data in a much more presentable format.

There are still some issues with quests and our website such as the list is not up-to-date. This is next on my list now that we know that Teker is going to be working on this subject.

[*Idjit*]

Re: Juggleblood's mobtalk idea, we could start having a series of quests where an artificial groupie mob (or a set of four mobs each of the base four classes cleric thief warrior mage) teaches basic grouping concepts, and expounds on the benefits of -why- grouping is good and not just how-to.
Like how a group fight's cycle goes (thief or monk starts, warrior rescues the starter, debuffers debuff, then healer heals, offensive types do their offense).
Basic group commands (including things that are informational in terms of -finding- a group like gwho).
gset grouptell gwho.

Right now it's actually rather difficult in mudl to force mobs to fight each other, I don't know if we need a new class of npc (to be used -sparingly-...or maybe not so sparingly if that's the wave of the future) that's got more of the player character behavior so that mobs can truly enter the group object instead of it being a simulation. That may get into more of a technical discussion between Teker and Breeze and it's kind of off-topic of the rest of this thread.
--Idj

[Teron]

Splork, as long as players can filter the quest list and dive into it, it is not overwhelming to have it ingame.

In my post, after analyzing the two quest logs I know, I have actually described how it should be done.

JB, while I agree that having the info on the website is useful, having it ingame is much more useful. For example, I have a command that lets me query an eqlist file for keywords - right from the MUD client. I don't have to switch windows, open a tab and search eqlist every time someone mentions an item and I need to find the mob or stats.

The same needs to be done for quests and the web data is simply a nice addition to have. Perhaps, on the site, we can provide more info for questers, maybe link to maps of areas, where the quests start.

As for adding new types of quests, some of which we've already discussed elsewhere:
- a weekly/monthly quest, where the quest mob picks a few random areas of different levels, and tells us to bring a certain number corpses and/or items, esp a forge, from it, for a reward.

You could make mobs from the area give us some specific quest currency, like bronze coins or Jord expedition points, which we can provide as proof that we've done the quest. It'll remove the necessity to use corpses as currency, because they are limited and take time/efforts to make, so a corpse requirement prevents ppl from grouping.

Heck, a mob could randomly pick an area and make mobs give good honor for a week. We have a good number of areas, so one area per week should be good enough.

- an teleport-to-area item, such as a corked diamond, for completely exploring an area - and maybe completing one weekly quest from above

- a quarterly fishing competition, run ingame or by a mob: you don't need an imm to count how much fish one has caught. To make things interesting, make only one type of fish count, one that's rarer, than the other

Of course, scripts can do most of the work, so maybe add a shark or two to the mix, which we already have, when fishing from an ocean (pikes can work, too)

- a quest to kill all mobs in the area, as soon as possible. group effort should count

- have a mob with a familiar, and make players pick their own familiars, buff them and fight the mob's familiar. Make mob's familiars scale repeatedly, i.e., start from a hedgehog, progress to a snapping turtle. As mob's strength grows, so do the rewards. Yeah, a shameless rip-off from WoW pets.

- a quest that involves control undead/charm person - other than the wiedzmin forge.

[Yasik]

Yesterday I had a chat with seems to be newcomer.
Admin can check logs and confirm I did not make this up.
Usefull feedback.

***** tells you 'hi have you done the law quest from constable?'
You tell ***** 'hi'
You tell ***** 'yes'
***** tells you 'can you help me do it please?'
***** tells you 'i keep getting killed'
You tell ***** 'ok, but I need fix my alignment first'
***** tells you 'thanks'
***** tells you 'i need to be good? i'm +2'
You tell ***** 'to take quest yes, to finish dont remember'
You tell ***** 'I need to be good to be able to have peri'
You tell ***** 'grand master hits hard, need to heal alot'
***** tells you 'he told me i don't need to sign up, just do it'
You tell ***** 'that means you dont have to 'undertake' command'
***** tells you 'questing is confusing here'
You tell ***** 'its old system, they fixing it now'
***** tells you 'some have _ between words!!'
You tell ***** 'that marks the quest keyword - in next step you 'undertake quest_keyword' after asking about'
***** tells you 'took me ages to work it out'


Also, for those who like to invent new ways to annoy players and make them mad - add up on top constant crashes - and you'll never see them again here. Its not a problem to start from scratch, the problem is that starting from scratch does not guarantee property not lost in another silly coincidence of bad events like this described below:


You tell ***** 'btw, beware of spider monkey - it steals items from inventory'
***** tells you 'ah'
***** tells you 'i lost a pack with all my stuff in'
***** tells you 'last time i was here'
You tell ***** 'monkey got it for sure'
***** tells you 'the world has reset since then '
You tell ***** 'you lost it forever'
You tell ***** 'comf'
***** tells you 'was probably junk but it was MY junk'
You tell ***** 'at least monkey steals and dont taunts us, like a sertaine other mob'
You tell ***** 'stealing mobs are spider monkey here in FoC, wandering kender in Autumnal forest, and young thugs in town'
***** tells you 'thanks for tips'
You tell ***** 'I usually kill those on sight, or just run past and not stand in same room with them'


When I worked with British Telecom, anything that can affect customers' service - must be scheduled 2 weeks ahead, with agreement from all parties involved, yes agreement and not just informed - customer must say "thats ok, go on with whatever you planned", while if they say its not ok - then discuss new time until they agree.
Personally, I think it is good approach and we could do same or similar here; all changes/fixes scheduled ahead so nobody caught dead/looted with nasty surprise making things even worse.

[*Splork*]

We realize the last couple of weeks have been a bit rough, we believe we are back to normal now. Teker has made an insane amount of changes to some core functionality,which in the end we believe the past two weeks will be well worth it.

Again, sorry for the instability!

Now lets get back on target and please leave this thread alone unless you have something relevant to add regarding quests...

Splork

[Yasik]

+ Quest difficulty and reward must be in correlation; recently I did two quests - to subdue penguin king (30k mob) and to bring 30 (!) ice trolls corpses to the quester. The trolls attack in packs, nearly killed me (1200 hp, -11 AC, with 3 undead pets assisting (soak damage)), but both quests have 2 (two) drachma reward. Its either poor design or mocking players.

+ Quests must be ***working***.

This is example of what I consider NOT working quest:

===============================================LOG

Map Room
Exits: South
An ancient globe of the world rests on an oaken stand.
A large man is here looking over some navigational charts.
Captain Morgan glows with a bright light!

<1209hp 533ma 395mv> >> - << -2 -11.0 150,521,593 291,447 indoors Clipper
ask Captain about ogre_costume
You ask Captain Morgan about 'ogre_costume'.
Captain Morgan tells you 'Ogre costumes? Oh yeah I mean I have never heard of such a thing. At '
Captain Morgan tells you 'least not without payment up front, that is. '

<1209hp 539ma 396mv> >> - << -2 -11.0 150,521,593 291,447 indoors Clipper
give 5000 coins Captain
The 'grace' spell on you is about to wear off.
Ok.

<1209hp 551ma 396mv> >> - << -2 -11.0 150,521,593 286,447 indoors Clipper
give 5000 coins Captain
Ok.

<1209hp 553ma 396mv> >> - << -2 -11.0 150,521,593 281,447 indoors Clipper
give 5000 coins Captain
Ok.

<1209hp 555ma 396mv> >> - << -2 -11.0 150,521,593 276,447 indoors Clipper
ask Captain about ogre_costume
You ask Captain Morgan about 'ogre_costume'.
Captain Morgan tells you 'Ogre costumes? Oh yeah I mean I have never heard of such a thing. At '
Captain Morgan tells you 'least not without payment up front, that is. '

<1209hp 565ma 396mv> >> - << -2 -11.0 150,521,593 276,447 indoors Clipper
l
Map Room
Maps of all shapes and sizes hang from the walls of this dimly lit room.
A large atlas lies open on a table that stands in the center of the room
and several maps and navigational charts have fallen to the floor. A globe
stands in the far corner.
Exits: South
An ancient globe of the world rests on an oaken stand.
A large man is here looking over some navigational charts.
Captain Morgan glows with a bright light!

<1209hp 565ma 396mv> >> - << -2 -11.0 150,521,593 276,447 indoors Clipper
ask Morgan about quests
You ask Captain Morgan about 'quests'.
Captain Morgan tells you 'Sorry, I don't know anything about that.'

<1209hp 565ma 396mv> >> - << -2 -11.0 150,521,593 276,447 indoors Clipper
give 10000 coins morgan
Ok.

<1209hp 565ma 396mv> >> - << -2 -11.0 150,521,593 266,447 indoors Clipper
ask morgan about quests
You ask Captain Morgan about 'quests'.
Captain Morgan tells you 'Sorry, I don't know anything about that.'

<1209hp 565ma 396mv> >> - << -2 -11.0 150,521,593 266,447 indoors Clipper
ask morgan about ogre_costume
You ask Captain Morgan about 'ogre_costume'.
Captain Morgan tells you 'Ogre costumes? Oh yeah I mean I have never heard of such a thing. At '
Captain Morgan tells you 'least not without payment up front, that is. '

<1209hp 565ma 396mv> >> - << -2 -11.0 150,521,593 266,447 indoors Clipper
Josiah tells you 'might need to say lormak to him'

<1209hp 565ma 396mv> >> - << -2 -11.0 150,521,593 266,447 indoors Clipper
t morgan lormak
You tell Captain Morgan 'lormak'

<1209hp 565ma 396mv> >> - << -2 -11.0 150,521,593 266,447 indoors Clipper
ask morgan about ogre_costume
You ask Captain Morgan about 'ogre_costume'.
Captain Morgan tells you 'Ogre costumes? Oh yeah I mean I have never heard of such a thing. At '
Captain Morgan tells you 'least not without payment up front, that is. '

<1209hp 565ma 396mv> >> - << -2 -11.0 150,521,593 266,447 indoors Clipper
The ship lurches as it comes to an abrupt stop against the docks.

<1209hp 565ma 396mv> >> - << -2 -11.0 150,521,593 266,447 indoors Clipper
say lormak
You say 'lormak'

<1209hp 565ma 396mv> >> - << -2 -11.0 150,521,593 266,447 indoors Clipper
ask morgan about ogre_costume
You ask Captain Morgan about 'ogre_costume'.
Captain Morgan tells you 'Ogre costumes? Oh yeah I mean I have never heard of such a thing. At '
Captain Morgan tells you 'least not without payment up front, that is. '

<1209hp 565ma 396mv> >> - << -2 -11.0 150,521,593 266,447 indoors Clipper
t morgan Lormak
You tell Captain Morgan 'Lormak'

<1209hp 565ma 396mv> >> - << -2 -11.0 150,521,593 266,447 indoors Clipper
say Lormak
You say 'Lormak'

<1209hp 565ma 396mv> >> - << -2 -11.0 150,521,593 266,447 indoors Clipper
ask Morgan about ogre_costume
You ask Captain Morgan about 'ogre_costume'.
Captain Morgan tells you 'Ogre costumes? Oh yeah I mean I have never heard of such a thing. At '
Captain Morgan tells you 'least not without payment up front, that is. '

<1209hp 565ma 396mv> >> - << -2 -11.0 150,521,593 266,447 indoors Clipper
ask Morgan about lormak
You ask Captain Morgan about 'lormak'.
Captain Morgan tells you 'Sorry, I don't know anything about that.'

===============================================LOG END

At this point it is pretty unclear to me what to do next, since quest mob refuses to cooperate and the quest progress is stuck.
The quest design is poor. It forces players to seek answers on channels, but it is forbidden to share quest info on public channel.
It is unprofessional and lame quickie trash, it leads to frustration and annoyance, players lose hope and abandon.
I strongly condemn approach like that. And it always was like this since S3. Better not to do at all.

[Josiah]

Why should quest difficulty and compensation be linked? You attempted a very challenging quest for someone of your power level, and pulled it off (admittedly with great difficulty). Well played! You could of course have brought a single friend to make it trivially easy.

Quests are fun challenges, and rewards are good, whatever the size. I'd be thrilled if there were hundreds more quests with tiny rewards, and the immorts took a big step in that direction when all these new quests were added recently.

It is far easier for me to slaughter 30 trolls than it is for a newbie to:
- figure out where the penguin area is
- go die to the king
- level up to 3x20, and try again
- turn off autokill and attempt again (and again) and finally win

Do level-appropriate quests for difficulty-appropriate rewards.

And Ozzy, you should've read the actual text of the quest prompts... you aren't on the right step to talk to Morgan yet, and the fact that you are talking to him now means that you probably learned about the quest third-hand rather than actually attempting it yourself.

[*teker*]

So part of what I'm getting is that there should be a recommended prime level and total levels for each quest so that players can figure out which quests are most appropriate for them. Since this would be different than the required level settings, players could still attempt the quest earlier if they think they're up to it.

Rewards are really a balance issue and since I don't deal with those, I'm not going to comment on it.

I've written a tool to go through the current quest list to get an idea of what's in the game and I thought some of you might find the information to be interesting. I can't guarantee that all the quests are actually in the game - they are configured but the quest mobs may not exist yet. But I thought it was interesting anyway.

Number of quests: 478
Allow Replay : 102
Secret : 171
Prime Quest : 13

Type of Quest:
- Auto-Complete : 65
- Items : 370
- - Corpse : 53
- - Subdue : 48
- - Other : 269
- Tell/Password : 8
- Visit Rooms : 19
- Trig-Trap : 8
- Visit Area : 8

# of Quests with the following Rewards:
- Item : 141
- Gold : 146
- Drachma : 287
- Experience : 145
- Aignment : 19
- Teleport : 6
- Spell : 15
- Game-Config : 2
- Teach-Skill : 5
- Honor : 9

[Marvel]

I know I haven't been around lately - 2 kids basically kills all my opportunities to do some MUDding. Work has been keeping me busy as well. I saw some great points and suggestions being made.

I do want to point out that many people that keep logs of their quest activities are using a format somewhat like the one here: http://nicklong.net/sloth/valkyre_aqs.html. And the drachma token of recollection actually isn't personal, so what I've done is just make a junk new character - get some drachma, buy the token and pass it to the main character to use said token.

When we have chained autoquests - often, you're able to find something out of order without knowing where it actually starts. That's due to the quest being set up by the imm who created it. And many of these legacy quests are well known, so people who know about them simply direct new players to the final reward / mob instead of the actual start of the quest itself. Sometimes the immortal has other goals than simply rewarding the player - Juggleblood wanted people to visit the frozen tundra / slay some nubz with the ice troll autoquest, while for one of my own autoquests - I actually wanted people to find things by READING things instead of relying on keywords. Those are just a couple of examples of other goals prevalent with said autoquest design.

There isn't really a master list of autoquest / quests available to immortals unless someone was able to chain them all up automatically. I haven't been around for at least the past several months so I don't know if there have been a lot of new ones added or not. I do wholeheartedly support there being at least a table somewhere of quests available on said continent like the web forms do. It gives players incentive to explore.

=======================

That being said, I'd love for there to be some sort of indicator being added to score for that specific area. We already have an indicator for how much of an area has been explored in score. It shouldn't be too hard to add another line that functions like the exploration score, except just for quests. The only downfall would be figuring out how to count repeatable quests for this %. This could also be tweaked to only consider quests available for your current levels. So if you're unable to qualify for a quest, it won't show up in the % available. That way, it forces continuous exploration at times...