T3 Gem calls by Newbies in Groups

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Re: T3 Gem calls by Newbies in Groups

Postby Teron » Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:17 pm

Splork, while I agree that newbie players can get into large groups to have fun, there are other factors, too:
- 20lev characters contribute way, way less, than avatar chars - sometimes even 0
- 20lev characters actually require time, effort and mana spent to keep alive or raise
- the situation where we absolutely must have newbies in groups is driven by low MUD population and t3 gem poprate adjustments
- newbies still get loads of exp (thanks to total levels) and gold w/o effort on their part.

In short, mathematically, having newbies in groups is like spending your time to give them your own exp and gold without any contribution on their part. I am not sure this is the intention of grouping with newbies.

That being said, personally, I like more ppl in groups, because its the communication that makes the game fun - most newbies are silent, though. But I'd rather have newbies group on valk/BH to hone their skills on easier mobs, where they can solve their own challenges. This way, they:
- already know what to do in large groups and don't require babysitting
- can keep themselves alive by using sanc, spectrals, spell shield or actively asking for them or by using sidhe charms.

If you feed them exp, gold, eq and gems without any effort from their part, this is what makes the game uninteresting and makes people leave.

After all, what keeps them here is the interesting game stuff and a community, not just gold or eq.

As for gems, if imms fix this by counting group total levels, not the number of ppl, I'll ask less newbies to join, because I need to focus on leading groups, not introducing new players to grouping, while leading. However, I'm totally for inviting new players to groups, so they can see the end game or at least a part of it, and get the "omg, we are killing a huge fiery DRAGON!" feeling, as long as someone like Zuzu holds their hand and spells them up beforehand w/o a leader instructing and waiting for all that.
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Re: T3 Gem calls by Newbies in Groups

Postby *Splork* » Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:39 pm

Good summary, all of which most of us already know :lol:

If you feed them exp, gold, eq and gems without any effort from their part, this is what makes the game uninteresting and makes people leave.


I would say that our 25 year history might prove this to be incorrect. Hundreds upon hundreds of players have been spoon fed one way or another to become long-time contributors to our player base. I remember players helping me 20 years ago to achieve my first 36 levels. They gave me everything you said here such as gold, exp, and equipment and it still happens today. I know because I sit up here and watch it. By them helping me reach level 36 and restoration, I quickly became an important part of any group which was created.

I can, with 100% certainty, tell you that this type of helping does indeed contribute positively to players staying. Giving a new player any help with any of the previously mentioned items is more apt to cause them to continue playing than to push them out the door. Don't get me wrong, I believe there needs to be balance...

It has become less frequent, mostly because our player base has shrunk and the game has changed quite a bit.

Either way, all I was pointing out is that our community of players is what normally helps get players hooked and thats because we have always been an extremely helpful game in terms of new players.
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Re: T3 Gem calls by Newbies in Groups

Postby Teron » Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:28 pm

If we agree that dragging newbies in huge groups leaves them helpless to:
- run to any area
- solo well
- do their own CR later on, etc,
then why do we condone and encourage this behavior?

If you want newbies to get engaged, let's significantly raise tier 1 gem poprate on valk for groups of 2+ - and make it scale w/ present group members, so that some experienced players start playing and leading some groups on valk, rather than impose the newbie care on off-valk leaders.

That being said, there is little to kill on valk for a group of 3+ 3x20s, so I'm not sure how it'll work out.

Again, I am usually fine w/ letting newbies in my groups, but if I spend my time/mana on them, it carves into everyone's exp. If it does, ppl enjoy groups a little bit less. I'd rather people enjoy groups more, if newbies join, not less. How about we work on that?
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Re: T3 Gem calls by Newbies in Groups

Postby *Splork* » Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:06 pm

Gem pop rates will not be changing, unless they get lower.

If we agree that dragging newbies in huge groups leaves them helpless to:
- run to any area
- solo well
- do their own CR later on, etc,


I never agreed to any of this, not sure where this is even coming from.

Adding a newbie to a group every now and again certainly isn't cramping anyone's style or ruining anyone's exp. Thats rediculous, most leaders know what groups a lowbie can be dragged in and what groups they can't be...period.

Again, I'll bow out of this thread now. I didn't realize that stating you did the right thing in regards to the gem pop was going to stir your inner energies this much.

Continue on
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Re: T3 Gem calls by Newbies in Groups

Postby Teron » Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:01 am

Taron wrote:But I'd rather have newbies group on valk/BH to hone their skills on easier mobs, where they can solve their own challenges. This way, they:
- already know what to do in large groups and don't require babysitting
- can keep themselves alive by using sanc, spectrals, spell shield or actively asking for them or by using sidhe charms.

We've also discussed earlier how only grouping with BH exp groups makes newbies group-reliant and not know anything until tri40. I thought this was a well-known fact. If this isn't something you know, then you might not be the all-knowing god.
Splork wrote:Good summary, all of which most of us already know :lol:

the above led me to believe we were on the same page.

Right now, newbies *must* be actively invited and dragged into all kinds of groups, including Dragon Mountain, Positive Plane (drakes throw winds randomly) or Archfiend, if we want to pop T3 gems.

As I said earlier, if the leader takes his time managing newbies instead of running the group, the kill time suffers, which lowers the exp. If a group spends time and mana on spelling up several newbies, it eats away at their run. It's a simple exp/minute equation really (I can provide you some data-based math if you want). Did I mention newbies also take exp without providing anything but entertainment value and a very small t3 gem pop chance?
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