Clerics-My Opinion

[Skar]

*I'm sorry if I come off as whiny, this is my opinion*

I've heard that a Cleric prime is useless as an avatar, and not having any cleric in my classO, I can't feel sympathy, but I do understand.
But, I've also heard that my classO is worthless because I don't have cleric in it.. from multiple people, never heard non cleric classO being praised yet...
I'm sure a non-cleric character could survive in this game, or even surpass a classO with a cleric in it if given to the right person... but I'm not the right person, and I do not feel like making another character with a cleric in it so I can be like you. That's why I'm here, to complain.

I feel clerics are just too good because-
1) They have all the powerful healing spells
2) Sanctuary, and later Aegis
3) Raise dead.. (I really want this for necromancers.. or druids..)
4) Supplication

I just feel that they hog too many powerful spells, granted without they wouldn't be the shining class that they are... And no I'm not saying share all those spells because that would make cleric just plain useless..

But I never think, dang it I wish I was a bard, or a warrior, or a monk...

Flame me if you'd like, this is my opinion.. post yours. Thx for the time~~!

~~Skar

[Wintersdark]

Well, I have to admit, I'm in the whole "Clerics are necessary in the Classo" group, so long as you intend on ever doing any solo play at all. If you group ALL the time, then cleric is unnecessary - pretty much everyone else will have cleric in their classo, so it's fine if you don't.

It allows you to play interesting classo's that will have their own advantages, freeing up that spot usually used for cleric.

Furthermore, a Necro/Druid non-cleric classo isn't particularly disadvantaged as you get similar protective/healing spells through those two classes, which goes a long way to make up for the loss of the clerical spells.

Lack of Supplication is meaningless - to be honest, Animate Dead/Summon, the Druid's summoning spell both produce perfectly good - if not better - followers more reliably as you don't have to hold alignment for them, and can have more than one.

I can't remember what your classo is off hand (not online right now), but really, cleric's not so necessary overall.

Now, assuming you don't have Druid, Necromancer, OR cleric, you're going to be pretty much incapable of solo play, but you can still be a valuable contributer in groups, in different ways depending on your classo.

Really, whether a Classo is good or not depends mostly on what you want to do. A 4xcaster, for example, makes a piss poor tank simply because they cannot protect, even though they can be rediculously powerful in close combat.

As to your other points....
Clerics SHOULD have all the powerful healing spells, just like how mages should have the best blasting spells, necromancers should have the best undead-related spells, ect, ect. It's what clerics do.

Sanc/Aegis? Druids get Fluidity/Greater Fluidity, which perform a similar function (and stack with sanc-effects), Necromancers get Wall of Flesh which, while different in implementation, has the same overall effect as sanc. I can't tell you how many times I've wished I had Wall instead of Sanc, for those long chop fights, or the situation where there are several mobs all in the same room.

Raise dead? Well, it would be handy if more people had it, but unnecessary. Overall, most people will take cleric in their classo, so there'll always be lots of raisers about. Necros shouldn't get it as it's kinda antithetical to what they do, Druid's shouldn't because they have their own things they are good at. It's important to have the various classes have their own advantages and disadvantages, to make the multi-class system work.

Supplication? Why? Again, Necro animating/summoning is BETTER. Sure, your undead followers can't heal you, but you can always get them. Pretty much every cleric would happily trade Supplication for the necro variants. I know I personally would LOVE to be able to have multiple followers who I could summon regardless of my alignment. Try being Neutral as a cleric - no supp's at all!

Bards are VERY handy to have in groups - Once you've been around longer, particulalry around high level bards - you'll appreciate what they can do. I may not wish I had bard in my classo, but I certainly want them in my groups!

Warrior types, well, that's another kettle of fish entirely.

Don't get me started on that

[Gnu]

Bards? Hehe... when the first bards were created, the most powerful group-oriented song was providing +1 dam to those who hear it

Undead followers can't heal? hm... re?

[nomis]

Well, scar, I'm in the same boat as you, having no CL nor DR levels, I think I suck at solo's. Infuse soul for necros sucks, because you'd need to have lotsa huge corpses to get those master infusions. It was raised early before that necros actually lose more HP then the 100HP you get back from infusion.

Now with more nefting of the necro classes ie. less undead followers, I feel that I'm being cursed even more without CL and DR levels, bad classo from the beginning I'd say. So, I'll just sit back and go slow on leveling at my own pace

I do realise that lots of necros who are going fast have CL and DR levels, so its all in the combo play.

Just ignore my whining ...

[Avatar]

[quote:1t0xu2th]I've heard that a Cleric prime is useless as an avatar...[/quote:1t0xu2th]

I can sympathize with lacking cleric in your classo. If you at least have druid, I'd recommend borrowing a piece of healbonus eq to see if you can get your heals to do more than the base 100 hp. There isn't much low-level healbonus eq around, but with effort you might be able to get 35-45 healbonus, that bumps your "heal" spell almost to a "gheal", and for the original mana cost.

Regarding the whole cleric.prime.useless.as.an.avatar comment, I think that's entirely false. I tend to play my 40 tard cleric more than my 40 tard warrior, and have fun doing so.

[Mosaix]

Skar

Even as an Level 22 Avatar it is not cool or powerfull to be a Cleric Prime.

Yes clerics have power in spells like raise dead, restoration, supplication, etc.
However most of the time those spells are only powerful when it comes to helping other people not our own char.(you just cant raise yourself from the dead). In groups most of the time we have to pay attention or the tank dies. We cant sit back bot, chop, blast, eat chips and drink beer while playing. In quest groups the Healo generally gets middle of the road EQ picks regardless of levels. When pretty much the group would never be successfull if the clerics refused to heal.

Cleric primes cant solo like the other classos. Supplication is a huge help. But I generally have to ask for help to kill certain mobs that if i was another type of prime I could easily solo. Our AC is often in the + to maybe -3 at best when running in cleric gear. Overall I do not enjoy playing my cleric prime anymore. Quests suck to get rewards, and in all groups, you end up being a heal gimp. Tired of raising people who have killed themselves cause they were foolish and stupid. Have to stop what I'm working on and respond to the sometimes demanding gossips.

I like the mud, alot, but do not say that clerics are over powered, thats selfish bullcrap, cause the power that we have is not for our own primes, its for you guys to live.

Think about that the next time you beg for heals in a group and are dead hoping for a raise Skar, its that overpowerd cleric prime that your hoping saves your ass. If you want skills for your own classo ask for them, but dont stand on the soapbox and trash another class that has done more than its fair share of helping you out.

Mosaix

[Mosaix]

Also when quest eq is handed out, maybe have some things that are Cleric Prime only. Baring the high level pig that takes it to resell it, it should filter down to the healos when they pick.

[Chainer]

thanx Mosaix for speaking for us cleric primes
i thank you behalf all the clerics in game

GO CLERICS!!! GO!!!

KA KAW

[Autolycos]

i agree whole heartedly with Mosaix, while having never played a cleric prime before, I can imagine the intense difficulty to solo anything.

I get spoiled as a high thief being able to run solo and get 150mil stab xp an hour with barely having to regen. most cleric primes will never see that xp without being in a huge group, *working their ass off healing*

I admire the attention and focus ability they have to see through all the spam to keep the G.Leader and Tanks alive. (and sometimes even the stabber who isnt paying attention) but there's is the most difficult job, it wasnt until bards came along that any *prime* actually had no other purpose then to do things for someone else. Which is there purpose, you cannot go to a Cancer DR. and tell him to quit helping because he is too powerful, thats his damn job...

I feel lucky, I just poke stuff, and hope i get rescued and not die. And if i do, i can feel confident that there is a medic on duty, and my return to living will implemented when appropriate...

Sound like intense Cleric envy!

Support your Local Cleric Union!

[12345]

The cleric cheering is kinda cool, but getting back to the point for a second...

Having cleric in classo is especially useful as a newbie, if for no other reason than self-preservation. Not dying has some serious advantages. It is entirely possible to play without it (Zukt comes to mind quickly) but it takes a good amount of experience to know what you're giving up and how to compensate for it.

That's not terribly different from any other class... like mage. If you don't have heavy blasting available, how are you going to adjust? Warrior, if you don't have 3 attacks and wide AC options, how can you adjust?

I don't know about primes, though I love the death out of em, but I do know that self-preservation is always in style. If you value your life, you may want to be able to heal yourself. Playing a classo like wa/mo/th/ba is a great hack-and-slasher... but almost all the tactical elements (invisibility, fly, infravision, sanctuary, heal, firewind etc) are going to take you some work to achieve, if you can get them at all. If you have someone you regularly play with to back you up... go for it.

Cleric isn't strictly necessary, but if you're new to the game, I definately recommend it.

[madmax]

For the record:

[40t 40w 40c 40m 19a] Autolycos

[quote:3ue1ij5o]I get spoiled as a high thief being able to run solo and get 150mil stab xp an hour with barely having to regen. most cleric primes will never see that xp without being in a huge group, *working their ass off healing*
[/quote:3ue1ij5o]

[40c 40m 40w 40n 16a] Madmax

Classo's are not the same of course, but if you think Cleric Primes are overpowered, I am LUCKY to get 20 mil/hour at best, working my ass off to get it solo. My best XP has always been in a 2 man group.

There have been many days I have played cycling solo, gain 100 mil only to lose concentration on winds and restorations back to back and die. Either corpse out or shock, and lose 80 mil xp. The whole day shot.

Clerics are _suppose_ to have the ability to use heal on undead to damage them, this hasn't ever worked since ive been playing.. Not to mention that the mana cost makes it unusable anyway.

I would have to say that I probabaly have some of the most powerful healing in the mud. With my healbonus eq I have worked vary hard to get, my resores are 290 to 300 hps, Mana cost 58. As comparison, 2 of my firewinds (+20 spelldam), do about 400, mana cost 50.

Lets just say that I argee with all the cleric primes that we are normally taken for granted. in groups we _have_ to pay attention. We are the ones that save everyones butts.

Reguarding the quest equipment, Blaster was kind enough recently to hold a quest where there was a goodie bag of eqipment, included was a Skull of the Unholy Priest, Low +2 MR, +30 healbonus, MCL. I was honored to receive it. This was the first piece of quest eq that I had ever received from a quest. If it wernt fir the fact that I was 1.healo in that group, I probabaly would not have gotten it at all.

[quote:3ue1ij5o]I admire the attention and focus ability they have to see through all the spam to keep the G.Leader and Tanks alive. (and sometimes even the stabber who isnt paying attention) but there's is the most difficult job, it wasnt until bards came along that any *prime* actually had no other purpose then to do things for someone else. Which is there purpose, you cannot go to a Cancer DR. and tell him to quit helping because he is too powerful, thats his damn job...
[/quote:3ue1ij5o]

Auto, again you are very right. Personally I set highligts on the tank, leader, etc and gag as uch as possible to not have all the spam. In Asryal's opener for Crossroads, the spam was horrible.. We did have a few times where people died, mostly caused beacuse of the reporter lag, which in that cast, cannot be used to keep the tank alive. The group command is much more accurate.

Well enough on my soapbox. I do appreciate the fact that some players are appreciating us clerics and giving us some recognition.

Go Clerics...

Madmax

[madmax]

For the record:

[40t 40w 40c 40m 19a] Autolycos

[quote:2jkz6mzf]I get spoiled as a high thief being able to run solo and get 150mil stab xp an hour with barely having to regen. most cleric primes will never see that xp without being in a huge group, *working their ass off healing*
[/quote:2jkz6mzf]

[40c 40m 40w 40n 16a] Madmax

Classo's are not the same of course, but if you think Cleric Primes are overpowered, I am LUCKY to get 20 mil/hour at best, working my ass off to get it solo. My best XP has always been in a 2 man group.

There have been many days I have played cycling solo, gain 100 mil only to lose concentration on winds and restorations back to back and die. Either corpse out or shock, and lose 80 mil xp. The whole day shot.

Clerics are _suppose_ to have the ability to use heal on undead to damage them, this hasn't ever worked since ive been playing.. Not to mention that the mana cost makes it unusable anyway.

I would have to say that I probabaly have some of the most powerful healing in the mud. With my healbonus eq I have worked vary hard to get, my resores are 290 to 300 hps, Mana cost 58. As comparison, 2 of my firewinds (+20 spelldam), do about 400, mana cost 50.

Lets just say that I argee with all the cleric primes that we are normally taken for granted. in groups we _have_ to pay attention. We are the ones that save everyones butts.

Reguarding the quest equipment, Blaster was kind enough recently to hold a quest where there was a goodie bag of eqipment, included was a Skull of the Unholy Priest, Low +2 MR, +30 healbonus, MCL. I was honored to receive it. This was the first piece of quest eq that I had ever received from a quest. If it wernt fir the fact that I was 1.healo in that group, I probabaly would not have gotten it at all.

[quote:2jkz6mzf]I admire the attention and focus ability they have to see through all the spam to keep the G.Leader and Tanks alive. (and sometimes even the stabber who isnt paying attention) but there's is the most difficult job, it wasnt until bards came along that any *prime* actually had no other purpose then to do things for someone else. Which is there purpose, you cannot go to a Cancer DR. and tell him to quit helping because he is too powerful, thats his damn job...
[/quote:2jkz6mzf]

Auto, again you are very right. Personally I set highligts on the tank, leader, etc and gag as uch as possible to not have all the spam. In Asryal's opener for Crossroads, the spam was horrible.. We did have a few times where people died, mostly caused beacuse of the reporter lag, which in that cast, cannot be used to keep the tank alive. The group command is much more accurate.

Well enough on my soapbox. I do appreciate the fact that some players are appreciating us clerics and giving us some recognition.

Go Clerics...

Madmax

[madmax]

One more thought,

At 2x40 I cycled in Tel-makor + other island stuff alot, I could easily make 40-45 mil/hour with 4 liches under the old animate dead days. Even with summons, supplicant, etc. I can not even do the exact same run as I did at 2x40.

So the addition of supplicants, removing of animated dead, has hit me alot worse than others.

This may be from my lack of knowledge of other areas, but personally I dont like to die, so I run what I know until I have been thru the area with someone else. Yes a level 16 avatar does not like entering areas that he dosent know.

[Skar]

I don't think cleric primes are overpowered, and I guess i see what you guys are saying, but I've never played 4 of these 8 classes, and I've only got alittle experience with 1.. so I'm just feeling right now that I wish I had a few of those spells... but thanks to those who posted tips, and sorry if I skimmed your post and didn't get the whole point some of you there's a lot of reading and I want to get back to playing.

Thanks for the responses and such!

[Weasel]

I'm stunned at that 150m exp per hour solo! Wow!