warcry

[Leaf]

[quote="Alberich":2bg89bhi]extra hps are useless? maybe it's just because I never run in groups, but the logic in that escapes me...[/quote:2bg89bhi]

Ok Alber, before the "new" change. When a tank would "Warcry" and every1
that joins in this "Warcry" they would get their HP upped. Example: You
have 1000hp (Tank), you warcry, attack get a bonus jump to maybe 1050.
Keep crying and killing ur hp gets higher and higher. So when ur in a group
and a cleric heals you, ur hp is 1050 as a temp "spell".
NOW, if you have 1000hp and cry, your hp gets 1050 but if u get wacked
and someone heals you, ur hp goes back to 1000hp. Skill is "Useless" with
this new change. It only helps the group, but not the tank who is the one
that is using this skill.

[12345]

Um.. net effect may appear useless, but in reality, the math works out the same.

Say warcry raises me from 1000 hps to 1050. When I fall to 850 and get healed for 200, I still only got healed 200 hp and the 50 stays as a buffer between me and death, making the extra 50 effectively unused. Difference now would be that I would have to fall to 800 and get healed to 1000. My extra 50 hps are getting used first, but I haven't lost anything, since I still only got healed for 200.

You're losing the 50 point buffer between you and death, and gaining 50 hps before you have to start healing. The extra hps are still there so I can't say this is a nerf, though some tanks may disagree I guess. The group bonus is still there, which is important because tanks have a dedicated healo and the group doesn't. More important on some mobs than others, obviously.

I don't see how the skill is useless at all though. It's essentially just as effective as it's always been.

[Alberich]

nod.. again, I don't group, and have never really used warcry, but it seems to me that the overall effect now is something similar to the overheals eudaemons used to do (still do maybe? I haven't bothered much with supps, before or after change, so not real sure). You can still take an extra hit or so before you need to start healing. I suppose it's not quite as sweet as having the extra hps added to your max, but it still seems fairly usefull as a 1-time buffer, along the lines of mirrors or an ariel servant.

I am curious though, if your tank has say 1k hps, and warcry gets him up to 1050, then gets whacked during fight, and at start of next fight has say 950 hps, and warcry is done again - will he have 1k hps, or 1050?

[Leaf]

I don't know if the hp will just add 950 or not. I believe it wont, unless the
tank is "full".
Saying that it sucks for tanks, because before they can get a total of yes
+200hp and when they get healed, they would keep the +200. However
if they wait a tick the hp starts falling again. Ooo well I'll stop whining.

[kjartan]

[quote="Alberich":39ckppyj]I am curious though, if your tank has say 1k hps, and warcry gets him up to 1050, then gets whacked during fight, and at start of next fight has say 950 hps, and warcry is done again - will he have 1k hps, or 1050?[/quote:39ckppyj]

He'll have 950 hps + 50 temporary, so if you then heal him he'll have 1050 total.

[Qa]

[quote="*kjartan*":8ca8skby]instead of raising your max hp, warcry will now give you the same amount of temporary hp. These will look like they are over your max (310/300 or whatever) but they won't bleed away like over-the-max hp usually do. They will however go away immediately when the fight ends. Damage comes off temporary hp until they run out, then off real hp. Temporary hp cannot be healed.
[/quote:8ca8skby]

This sounds like the original intent of warcry. KJ, thanks for recognizing that warcry was overpowered, bugged, or not working correctly. (Whatever you want to call it.)

Flame me all you want, but warcry was not intended to be the font of hundreds of HP for the group. Warcry was clearly overpowered or not working correctly. This was a feature/bug that benefitted the players. *Stare Leaf, 13*

Just as we would point out a skill/change is bad, we should be responsible characters and point out when a skill/change may not be doing it's intended function, [i:8ca8skby]even though it's good for the characters[/i:8ca8skby]. How else should be expect the immorts to listen to us when we cry foul because of alignment changes? It is my opinion that this should be a two way street.

Qa

[Leaf]

Qa go stand in the middle of a 2 way street and lets see which side u end
up at. jk

[13]

It's not as much fun to flame you if you make sense. Please stop.

[Weasel]

True Qa, but notice how quickly anything buggy to the player's benefit generally gets removed / adjusted / tweaked / nerfed? The random pops were added to Lyme the other day, and they were popping too often.. that was removed within a couple of hours. I haven't popped any spellbooks since (and when they were popping, it was nearly all new classo stuff anyway) althou the couple of hex pops were nice while they lasted. Supplication was around for a while but unfortunately I never used it until the last couple of days hitting cloud giants, but it's nerfed now. In comparison if it's the other way around it just seems to take forever for adjustments, I guess in the hopes we just accept it. This is a generalization, but heck, I'm still waiting for something to be done regarding the loss of grace. I have been evil since the alignment changes were made, prior to that I was always near the top of good alignment. The only way I'm going to combat this is stop hitting the mobs I want to hit and only hit the mobs the admin dictate I hit, and only with the spells they dictate I use apparently too. Hey I know, why don't they just play the game for me? A least tone the ******* thing down! Evil is in the eye of the beholder, so at least make the alignment balance relatively even the way it was before - right now it's a friggin joke. What's the point in having mobs when there is such a biased penalty for hitting them, it achieves one thing only - restricting the entire mud. If anyone can't see the logic in how this is hurting the attraction of this mud then they should go bury their head in the sand and stay there. Please, growth is good, but not growth that is to the detriment of gameplay.

Bah sorry, just pisses me off every time I think about it.

[Alberich]

I still don't see how this 'dictates how you play'. For one thing, if you are that dead-set on using the 'good' supps, it takes 1-2 runs for an avatar to change their alignment either direction (might be slightly more for say a tri40, unless they are a thief), so there is that option. Supplication was put in what, a few months ago? It didn't exist before that. Noone considered that 'dictating how you play', so how is it different now? I'm with you 100% on the grace thing, and protection from evil too for that matter, but supplication is much more than a peri or a eudaemon, and was probably always meant to - the fact that they became so ubuiquitous over a relatively short period of time that not being able to use 1 or 2 specific ones is considered this huge crippling thing probably indicates that it really was overpowered to begin with.

[Weasel]

If I want to play the game the way I have been and run the same areas I like, then I have no choice but to lose grace and the possible use of eudaemon (not that I hardly ever used supplication as I said). The alternative is to either not hit those areas and run elsewhere instead (ie: dictate how I play and what I hit) OR run some evil area 4 times for every one time I hit the area I normally like to run, just to keep my alignment good so I can use grace like I always did (ie: dictate how I play and what I hit) - this is if I dont even use supplication, I'm still being adversely effected. Why should a player be disadvantaged because the admins decided some other spell the player didn't use was overpowered? How is this NOT dictating play? I'm not dead-set on using supps at all, I just don't think players in my situation should be penalized for it. I don't dent eudaemons where awesomely overpowered and enabled me to run CG much more effectively, but in taking away some of that excess power, why take away other effects that had nothing to do with it? Now do you see my point? I either put up with the loss and play the way I like to play, or I compensate for the loss by changing the way I play and where and what I hit - that is the definition of dictating how one plays.

[12345]

I think people are focusing too much on the peri and rabbit. They were quite nice, especially for tankish types, but of the few supplicants I've ever been able to summon and test, the healers were the useful ones. Mostly because an einhari and lares are horrible followers for a 40 prime. Much like druid forms tend to suck if it's your forth class. The peri has some features that manage to make it useful at most levels, which makes it weapon of choice for those with cleric 3rd and 4th.

It's not as much about the peri being overpowered as it is the rest being underpowered... as far as the 'good' ones. I still need to play more with the evil supplicants, but I've mostly heard they're good for fighting, which makes me think they'll be mostly underpowered for me until I can summon a nightmare or such... Anyone know the level for summoning one offhand?

[Deju]

Well, I told myself I wouldnt chime in, but this is nuts. I can't believe that people think that warcry or supplicants are overpowered.

Do you really think that an extra 50hps here or there, or an occasional greater heal are overpowered when we have players who can currently solo 30-40mil mobs without much trouble?

[Weasel]

ppl can solo a 30-40 mil mob?!? daaaamn!

[Medios]

I started a very lengthy post here, but decided to delete it before I alienate myself from a few imms that I really like. Bottom line is theres an idea in someones head for the direction of Sloth. Voting has been so high for the last few months (mainly due to the veteran chars who love this game) that the playerbase has grown tremendously. Now with so many new players sloth could weather the loss of the older generation. Honestly guys, I dont think many admin care who plays as long as there are alot of players. I would personally rather have one veteran over 5-10 newbs. However its not my game I just play it.

Mike

PS
I have a great idea for next time. When you add new code, mebbe dont make it so powerful. I believe every player would rather get an increase in a skill than a decrease. Put something new in, decide its too weak and give it some more power. Dont put something in and let it sit for months then decide everyone is having too much fun.