doug

Information about the necro class

doug

Postby doug » Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:14 am

Necro is an interesting classo to play but it has some serious deficiencies in my opinion. Among them are:

The strength spell nicking a con point is kind of silly. Does anyone actually use this? I can use potions and scrolls obviously, but why make a useless spell.

Bone armor, this is the biggest problem with using necro as your prime caster level. It shatters almost constantly at level 24. It is obviously based on mob level against caster level but this is really unreasonable. I can't kill groupers, parasites, pretty much anything over 300k will shatter my bone armor, chewing up my mana at 16 mana per recast and eventually causing me to recall. Sucky.

Word of pain should be level 16 or so, a level 20 caster should get some kind of useful offensive spell by the time mages have fireball. Maybe not word of pain but something at least. Vamp touch is cool but it doesn't seem to do much damage and frequently enough yields a palrty return on hp.

Reign of the spider, this might just have been overlooked, but since the spells says any level 20 caster, shouldn't necros also get the spell? If not that kind of stinks in that if you are foolish enough to do warrior/necro you will be waiting till level 20 of your tert class at least to get out of webs without having to dispel.

On the plus side, arms is cool, wall is swell.

Anyhow, opinions?
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Um...

Postby Ender » Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:36 pm

I haven't played a necro, so correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

My understanding of the class was that you summon lots and lots of dead people to fight for you. Having seen the JuJu Zombie the other day, this isn't a bad course of action. I've seen necros take out lots of targets solo that I couldn't dream of taking by myself with the aid of a few handy dead people.

If you look at D&D necro spells, they suck. You're basically limited to chill touch and not a lot else until you get to high levels and pick up almost every insanely useful resurrection spell there is. I don't think your main power is supposed to be blasting might, and I don't think I'd even consider playing one until I had about 500 macros to control my followers.

What I WOULD do, as far as offensive spells, is increase the effect of spells like chill touch and vamp touch. ie. the effects of specializing in necromancy gives bonuses in the regular game, so why not here? This could be as simple as double damage, or -2 str instead of one, ect. (are mobs affected by str loss?)

I'm intrested to hear what the other necros suggest though.
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redux

Postby doug » Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:17 am

I understand they aren't meant to be mage equivalents and need to be played accordingly, but necros get pretty decent blasting in game now, you just have to wait will the mid 20s to get any of it. There is tenebrous claw and then word of pain at 25, there should be something in the middle so that it steps up like all the other caster classes.

Of course I couldn't really use it anyhow since I need to save all of my mana to continaully recast bone armor if I'm fighting anything tougher than a grymlyn.
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Re: redux

Postby Ender » Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:10 pm

[quote="doug":41m8nu98]Of course I couldn't really use it anyhow since I need to save all of my mana to continaully recast bone armor if I'm fighting anything tougher than a grymlyn.[/quote:41m8nu98]

Seems to be a running theme with the necro class... This is one of the few times I've ever thoght that an identical spell within the skill list would be appropriate... It's beginning to sound like necros need a level 20-25 spell that has exactly the same effect... with less breakage. Or perhaps a second spell/skill, that strengthens the first. Either way, I don't think bone armor is the exact problem, after all, we even grow out of the 'armor' spell. Bone armor would just be a gap spell, to be replaced by another when the necro reaches level xx. Finding the spellbook and spending the extra mana of the spell is still required. The only difference I see is that where 'stone skin' is actually more powerful than 'armor' the upgrade to 'bone armor' wouldn't be.

Don't know if that would help your problem at all, but it seems like it would be a most fair solution...
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Avatar or Splork?

Postby Ender » Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:32 pm

Running through the other posts in this category, I see that Avatar and Splork have necros... Both are beyond accomplished players, I'm curious of their opinions on this, and more to the point, how they adjusted for this, since I'm relatively sure it didn't slow them down much...
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Necros

Postby *Splork* » Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:20 pm

I do have a player which has necro in the classo, but playing a Necro prime and a character which simply contains necromancers is completely different.

I view this prime class as one of the hardest for our players to get used to because it depends more on their followers rather than spells or skills which lead to the outright death of a mob. I believe, once a prime necro gaines enough levels to create their JuJu Zombie, that the strength of their character increases tremendously. The JuJu Zombie grows in size and strength with each and every level the player gains. Their hit points, blasting power, damage, hitroll, armor class, etc all increases right along with the player. Also, with the creation of the JuJu charm, creating this zombie is extremely easy once you have raised the initial zombie. This creature does all sorts of cool and beneficial things, such as spitting out infuse soul potions upon devouring a corpse, relocating to its master so that the two are always together, it even blasts firewinds once the creator is high enough level!


I believe you see how powerful the class can be at high levels, the problem is no one has reached these heights yet! :twisted:

Anyways, enough babbling,

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Avatar

Postby Avatar » Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:16 am

Like Splork, my Rizzen character isn't a necro prime. Also I haven't tried to solo with him much because his stats aren't good. As a group character, he pretty well rocks...by the time I solo though I doubt I'll run into any of the problems other classorders might, because I also have cleric and mage. The real versions of Strength, Stone Skin, Firewind, etc.

I think the JuJu would be critical for a necro solo. Necro/Warrior or Necro/Monk might be nice, to give you the extra hps and AC you need to survive during a fight so that your JuJu can kill off the mob. JuJu seems to be the best of the prime-only abilities, and it seems like they've tried to help balance the class by adding him. Without the JuJu or without necro as your prime class, it can be a very weak class.
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Red Mage?

Postby Ender » Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:58 am

I don't know how many people will understand the reference, but the necro sounds a bit like the Red Mage in Final Fantasy. Able to do a little of everything, little of it well. I've seen references to healing, blasting, tanking, summoning, near-sancing, etc.

Very versitle class, but like the Red Mage, weak. At least until the JuJu shows up, at which point, well, life is pretty good.

I think my advice to Doug is to act like any other weak class. Hide behind a group and level up to JuJu. You seem to have some excellent support skills that should make you very useful in a 2 or 3 man group... assuming that you can't get in one of the many mega-groups thats been wandering around lately.
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Postby brand » Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:27 pm

red mage it is...
i don't want the necro to get a weak image, look at all the kool things they can do..
(weaken) is the bastard son of blindness, it's always being cast and always useful...
(spectral shield) is the best mana regen in game...
(wraithform) you are immune to weapons...

at low levels soloing is just dangerous. nothing beats going into that big fight with a cure serious ready for heals, or the fireball, or double attack, if the monster is worth anything you are going to get crushed...
at 40 prime the class gets tough, but I think thats because you get access to wraithform and some really great eq (eq rocks!), then your other classes go up and you now own that monster that always pushed you around at low levels... my beast was goat faced troll, when i was able to murder it in a round or two without even watching (an empty victory for sure) i knew things had changed...
low level necros should bring there weaken spellbook and join the supergroups running now (ups to fresh and mullah) you might mant to leave the summoned monsters at home though (although with banish undead working so good perhaps they can play nice)...
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Silly thought...

Postby Ender » Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:40 pm

This is a silly thought, but I thought I'd throw it up here, simply because it seems to fit the class.

I remember in the days of yesteryear that evil mages, such as necromancers, often worked to become liches, and thereby become immortal (and insanely powerful).

In keeping with this, I was thinking that a large portion of the mud used to be scared of growing old... I don't see the necro as having this fear, in fact, it almost seems as if the opposite should be true, the older they become, the more powerful they should be, at least for primes. They would just reach a level where their body was useless (they do have wraithform already), and all their power lay in magic and undead.

It's a thought, but an interesting one. It would certainly create a new market in +age related items, of which quite a few are already floating around the mud as 'cursed' items.
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