Super Shifting... (concept)

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Super Shifting... (concept)

Postby jezer » Thu May 08, 2008 10:23 pm

Ok, I've got this idea I was going to keep to myself for a while, but thought I'd put it out in the open, because...

* I don't know if my idea actually works... so I need feedback
* It gonna take effort to do, and the imms may nerf me AFTER I've done it, so nerf me now and get it over with...
* It's not too much advantage anyways... except in a handful of situations

Extra hp's on top or your base hp max tend to multiply out when you shift. For example my tarantula has 1650hp, but with stamina (+20atm) etc its 1710hp. I calculated you can wear almost 300hp in extra hitpoints gathering items from in the game.

I'm thinking...

REGEN MODE
MAXMANA MODE
MAXHP MODE
cast 'restoration' $me
SHIFTMODE
SHAPESHIFT

Obviously for the intial combat round... if the +300hp's is multiplied out... I could get an intial shift of plus 500-600hp's?

Idea is semi useful mainly only on those mobs that wipe 400-500 per round, you get one more round in without unshift/reshift problems economics etc. But I accept it's not terribly useful... although... is a 3khp Piasa Bird on the cards (during futility) possible doing this..? I would like to give it my best shot.

When it's all said and done... the essential shortage on druid chars... is mana... even if we had 10000hp's we still have the same bottleneck so, stop ya whining ya pansy tanks. My shifted runs, typically last 2mins, use 1000 mana, and reap a meager 10-25mill xp... so flame on about the overpoweredness! :twisted:

So Theoretically, if the idea works... my form can have an initial 500+ hp's? Yes? No? Thoughts? Nerfs? Caps? Flames? Sarcastic Remarks? Lol Cats?
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Postby Rynquald » Thu May 08, 2008 10:44 pm

[quote="Jezer":28xqvqmc]So Theoretically, if the idea works... my form can have an initial 500+ hp's? Yes? No? Thoughts? Nerfs? Caps? Flames? Sarcastic Remarks? Lol Cats?[/quote:28xqvqmc]

[img:28xqvqmc]http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/5/8/whosummonzteh128547708741885000.jpg[/img:28xqvqmc]
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Re: Super Shifting... (concept)

Postby Weasel » Thu May 08, 2008 11:16 pm

[quote="jezer":1wr8dlzq]Extra hp's on top or your base hp max tend to multiply out when you shift. For example my tarantula has 1650hp, but with stamina (+20atm) etc its 1710hp.[/quote:1wr8dlzq]

I think you've just discovered a bug.

I feel your pain. Really.
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Postby jezer » Thu May 08, 2008 11:31 pm

A bug? No biggie... they don't fix them anyway! :twisted:

Unless they are in our favor... wait! :shock: Bad weasel! :twisted:

Nah, doubt it's a bug... But hey if you wanna cap the hp's and give prime druids a little more than +20 dam... please do... or make the avatar +dam shift... cause we suck in the damage dept.

Piasa, Seadragon, Phoenix, Trant nearly all at 20 dam, logic tells me the higher the form the higher the damage should be right? Most people are running around at +25 at 5x40? even higher... nods
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Postby Weasel » Fri May 09, 2008 12:55 am

[quote="jezer":25hxkbi8]Most people are running around at +25 at 5x40? even higher... nods[/quote:25hxkbi8]

LOL guess again.. unless your name is Autolycos.
I run at 15 dam at -12ac
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Postby jezer » Fri May 09, 2008 2:06 am

Interesting, I started to do brutals shifted at around +17dam, while I frequently see warriors doing brutals and vicious with crit hits etc etc... and you say ur only at +15! Must be weapon damage that is making the small difference.

I recall some player claiming to be +30 something in damage... medios? or cocaine? Druids running at 20... Warriors... say 15 at -12 + weapon damage... hmmm I don't know. I know a monk whose at +23 and can probably get higher... Yeah I guess it's fairly balanced... but logic tells me, when I am mutated to a huge animal for two minutes... and I hit on about on par as a warrior... there is still room for improvement.

Qudos to the imms btw, I think they are looking to address this... and the polar bear gloves were cool. The white fur clashes with my dolphin skin boots though. :oops:
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Postby Weasel » Fri May 09, 2008 2:22 am

nods I should have mentioned, I also have +7 weapon damage.
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Postby Rynquald » Fri May 09, 2008 2:51 am

Shifted druids also aren't generally wielding anything.
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Postby Medios » Fri May 09, 2008 9:16 am

Leizu used to wear tiny jade rings and other hp gear to do exactly what your saying. He would put the hp gear on, heal self, change into shift gear and shift. This would yield about 500hp like you say, cost being one heal of his mana. This is not a bug , nor is it overpowered. Eq is everything in sloth.

Also

Medios runs at +27
Dogs also has +27 but would be 30 with the shield of south ice. Hand damage is much easier to get.

Most players run below +23 without quest eqs.

Hope this helps.
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Postby jezer » Fri May 09, 2008 10:55 am

Thanks Mike.

So it's there, it's legal, it's been done before... guess it's safe to put the effort into collecting the eq :)

End of Topic I guess.
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Postby strider » Fri May 09, 2008 11:20 am

ok a couple quick things and i hate being the bearer of bad news.

first off, the hps only jump up like that when they are "natural". any hps you add thru eq are simply added on 1:1
shifted mandos naked at 830 hps, piasa has 2131
throw on his tank gear, 984 hps, piasa has 2285
i add 154 hps thru eq, piasa adds 154hps. the reason why stamina boosted ya up so much is those are your new "natural" or permanent hps.

as far as forms doing damage. they might not have more dmg but you do get more attks. once ya finally get to piasa, you get to add that avatar attack skill and so now ya get 6 attks! and not many chars can run 20 dmg at -12 or even -11 ac, so count your forms lucky!!
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Postby jezer » Fri May 09, 2008 11:34 am

Interesting... well if eq adds at a ratio of 1:1, adding 270-300 to a shifted form is fairly pointless... given the work and cost of a further eq set.

As for the damage, I'll except +20 is a fair amount. But when you consider I'm a huge ugly animal, far bigger and more powerful than a human... there is still some give for the future.

Thanks for your input... because the stamina spell multiplies shifted, I would have got a rude shock when the eq only added at a ratio of 1:1, after all my cycling.
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Postby strider » Fri May 09, 2008 11:44 am

for your damage i'ld look more to what your dice are than what your +dmg is. my thief is at 29 dmg, but that's only w/ a 2d6 weapon. i'ld be willing to bet that your attacks have better dice than 2d6. when it comes to pure hack and slash i'ld wager that not many chars can keep up w/ the damage a piasa deals especially at that ac.

ps. i really don't believe that last statement, i'm just trying you make you feel better!
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Postby jezer » Fri May 09, 2008 11:54 am

:twisted:

For a second there, you had me trying to work out how I could figure out what my damage die was shifted... :D

Actually, now I really want to know... :evil:
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Postby Rynquald » Fri May 09, 2008 6:54 pm

[quote="Jezer":3u4o3kld]As for the damage, I'll except +20 is a fair amount. But when you consider I'm a huge ugly animal, far bigger and more powerful than a human... there is still some give for the future. [/quote:3u4o3kld]

You can look at it the other way around too. Thanks to the need for equanimity (and our inability to cast/use skills), we know that a shifted druid doesn't maintain all their human mental capacity. So while a large animal has size and strength on their side, unshifted chars are thematically supposed to be extremely skilled combatants.

Take piasa for example, according to its desc, it's a roughly bull-sized, scale covered bird (with only animal instincts to guide its fighting). Tell me you don't think someone with 10 years of training, a sword and full armour wouldn't be as dangerous as that :)
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